|
|
Post by eric on May 17, 2016 8:47:55 GMT -6
I had thought we had settled this discussion, or at least exhausted it, but other people keep bringing it up and so I want to draw a line under the whole shebang.
I am not a debater. I am neither trained nor gifted in the art of convincing people. I am both in the art of science, and so the proof I care about is (only) empirical. Other people aren't this way, and so we tend to talk past each other. This can't be helped.
Thinking about it yesterday, what puzzles me most about this is why people will spend so much time so vehemently arguing. I know why I care so much about my character being erroneously impugned (because it's my character), but why do others care so much? I considered whether they are motivated here by what's best for the league, but rejected that for three reasons:
1. Jesse has already been adjusted. If people cared about what's best for the league, they would already be satisfied.
2. Even if he hadn't, there is no connection between the two parameters. Me doing what is best for my team can be bad for the league in the same way that creating the Thunder juggernaut was, that doesn't in any way suggest I am cheating, doing a job on the league, slimy, abusing power, rigging the system, dirty, hoggish, or any of the other allegations that continue to be made against me.
3. Even if there was, we see plenty of cases where GMs explicitly take advantage of each other or otherwise undermine the league and people don't argue about it for hours.
So to sum up: I don't know why people are acting the way they are, and I don't have the ability to convince them they're wrong. From now on I'm simply going to link to this thread when other people start the discussion again, and we'll see how that goes.
|
|
|
|
Post by ANK1990 on May 17, 2016 8:51:25 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on May 17, 2016 8:58:03 GMT -6
This is not going to end well. :(
|
|
|
|
Post by Odin on May 17, 2016 8:59:37 GMT -6
|
|
Bruns
Former GM 
Posts: 4,218
Likes: 1,025
Dump Bucks: 35,800
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by Bruns on May 17, 2016 9:02:38 GMT -6
Yeahhh I would just drop it if I was you and hope people move on.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lazy Pete on May 17, 2016 9:10:43 GMT -6
1. Jesse has already been adjusted. If people cared about what's best for the league, they would already be satisfied. You are correct. The matter has been resolved. But because you don't want to acknowledge the underhanded nature of what you did, people are going to continue to bring it up. 2. Even if he hadn't, there is no connection between the two parameters. Me doing what is best for my team can be bad for the league in the same way that creating the Thunder juggernaut was, that doesn't in any way suggest I am cheating, doing a job on the league, slimy, abusing power, rigging the system, dirty, hoggish, or any of the other allegations that continue to be made against me. The Thunder were built through skill and luck. If this were poker, they picked up a straight flush and bet it skillfully. You, on the other hand, tried to slip an ace up your sleeve and got caught. Mostly because you were yelling out "I'm slipping an ace up my sleeve!" as you did it. 3. Even if there was, we see plenty of cases where GMs explicitly take advantage of each other or otherwise undermine the league and people don't argue about it for hours. You don't see how a trade, which involves two or more parties consenting to a deal, whether that deal is good or bad, is more fair than one person unilaterally creating a superplayer and building them to sign w/ his team in FA? |
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on May 17, 2016 9:21:19 GMT -6
Eric didn't have an ace up his sleeve. That is not allowed. What eric did was not breaking any rules.
A better poker analogy is that there was a mirror no one had noticed yet behind the other players so he could see their hands. He went all in when he knew he had the best hand, then he told us that he could see our hands in the mirror, and the dealer called a misdeal.
Now we're arguing about whether eric should have noticed the mirror, told everyone about it so we took it down, and not looked at everyone's hand. Eric thinks it is fine because he didn't put it there, it was not against the rules to look in the mirror, and he told everyone about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lazy Pete on May 17, 2016 9:22:56 GMT -6
Eric didn't have an ace up his sleeve. That is not allowed. What eric did was not breaking any rules. A better poker analogy is that there was a mirror no one had noticed yet behind the other players so he could see their hands. He went all in when he knew he had the best hand, then he told us that he could see our hands in the mirror, and the dealer called a misdeal. Now we're arguing about whether eric should have noticed the mirror, told everyone about it so we took it down, and not looked at everyone's hand. Eric thinks it is fine because he didn't put it there, it was not against the rules to look in the mirror, and he told everyone about it. Yeah that's a good way to sum it up |
|
victorj24
Former GM
#3030 #neverforget #ohwow
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 191
Joined: January 2015
|
Post by victorj24 on May 17, 2016 9:23:14 GMT -6
All I know is I wish I had a high pick in the last draft.
|
|
|
|
Post by eric on May 17, 2016 9:50:34 GMT -6
Eric didn't have an ace up his sleeve. That is not allowed. What eric did was not breaking any rules. A better poker analogy is that there was a mirror no one had noticed yet behind the other players so he could see their hands. He went all in when he knew he had the best hand, then he told us that he could see our hands in the mirror, and the dealer called a misdeal. Now we're arguing about whether eric should have noticed the mirror, told everyone about it so we took it down, and not looked at everyone's hand. Eric thinks it is fine because he didn't put it there, it was not against the rules to look in the mirror, and he told everyone about it. I would phrase it: I told everyone about the mirror (and the one behind me) and nobody cared, then I told people I was looking in the mirror and nobody cared, then I won the hand and nobody cared, then we counted the pot and it was $10,000... and people cared. |
|
|
|
Post by eric on May 17, 2016 9:56:00 GMT -6
1. Jesse has already been adjusted. If people cared about what's best for the league, they would already be satisfied. You are correct. The matter has been resolved. But because you don't want to acknowledge the underhanded nature of what you did, people are going to continue to bring it up. 2. Even if he hadn't, there is no connection between the two parameters. Me doing what is best for my team can be bad for the league in the same way that creating the Thunder juggernaut was, that doesn't in any way suggest I am cheating, doing a job on the league, slimy, abusing power, rigging the system, dirty, hoggish, or any of the other allegations that continue to be made against me. The Thunder were built through skill and luck. If this were poker, they picked up a straight flush and bet it skillfully. You, on the other hand, tried to slip an ace up your sleeve and got caught. Mostly because you were yelling out "I'm slipping an ace up my sleeve!" as you did it. How can I be simultaneously underhanded, honest, and forthright? 3. Even if there was, we see plenty of cases where GMs explicitly take advantage of each other or otherwise undermine the league and people don't argue about it for hours. You don't see how a trade, which involves two or more parties consenting to a deal, whether that deal is good or bad, is more fair than one person unilaterally creating a superplayer and building them to sign w/ his team in FA?[/quote]In the first case, one GM takes advantage of an information asymmetry. This does not exist in the second case. |
|
Bruns
Former GM
Posts: 4,218
Likes: 1,025
Dump Bucks: 35,800
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by Bruns on May 17, 2016 9:56:34 GMT -6
Eric didn't have an ace up his sleeve. That is not allowed. What eric did was not breaking any rules. A better poker analogy is that there was a mirror no one had noticed yet behind the other players so he could see their hands. He went all in when he knew he had the best hand, then he told us that he could see our hands in the mirror, and the dealer called a misdeal. Now we're arguing about whether eric should have noticed the mirror, told everyone about it so we took it down, and not looked at everyone's hand. Eric thinks it is fine because he didn't put it there, it was not against the rules to look in the mirror, and he told everyone about it. I would phrase it: I told everyone about the mirror (and the one behind me) and nobody cared, then I told people I was looking in the mirror and nobody cared, then I won the hand and nobody cared, then we counted the pot and it was $10,000... and people cared.
If everyone had a mirror than everyone would of had a fair chance of winning the hand. You stacked the deck (I know its cheating) and you were the dealer. U went all in on river with the nuts knowing damn well it wasn't good for the game but good for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by Citizen Cane on May 17, 2016 10:11:23 GMT -6
heebs said it perfectly
|
|
|
|
Post by Majic on May 17, 2016 10:12:00 GMT -6
so many poker analogies going on right now  |
|
|
|
Post by gbgalla24 on May 17, 2016 10:17:16 GMT -6
I really hate these posts. If you have something to add, add it. Quit cosigning posts just to get your post count up. |
|
|
|
Post by 20s Navidad on May 17, 2016 10:26:53 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by Druce on May 17, 2016 10:31:28 GMT -6
lmao.
|
|
|
|
Post by Majic on May 17, 2016 10:33:10 GMT -6
I really hate these posts. If you have something to add, add it. Quit cosigning posts just to get your post count up. perfectly said GBG |
|
|
|
Post by Citizen Cane on May 17, 2016 10:38:03 GMT -6
I really hate these posts. If you have something to add, add it. Quit cosigning posts just to get your post count up. thanks for your concern |
|
|
|
Post by KwYawnza on May 17, 2016 10:56:34 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by SPL on May 17, 2016 11:17:06 GMT -6
Eric,
I think what people are taking the issue with is that you keep defending what has happened. Let it go and move on and eventually they will move on as well.
|
|
Bruns
Former GM
Posts: 4,218
Likes: 1,025
Dump Bucks: 35,800
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by Bruns on May 17, 2016 11:56:16 GMT -6
I like Eric and I think hes a good guy and means well. These were the things that I took issues with in no particular order.
-Created super prospect from his knowledge of software and creating prospects. (Magic Johnson damn near killed the league)
-Made him more likely to sign with him in the future with most GMs not knowing the 0/0/0 bullshit
-Me having 1.1, Didn't even get the best player in a draft (before tuning) in a draft that should of been top 3 heavy.
-Me trading a good player to the rockets for a bunch of rockets picks thinking that a PG taken at 1.4 with those grades wouldn't be a cheat code. (especially right away)
-Eric denying he did anything wrong or admitting what he did was terrible for the league.
|
|
|
|
Post by eric on May 17, 2016 13:02:49 GMT -6
I like Eric and I think hes a good guy and means well. These were the things that I took issues with in no particular order. -Created super prospect from his knowledge of software and creating prospects. (Magic Johnson damn near killed the league) -Made him more likely to sign with him in the future with most GMs not knowing the 0/0/0 bullshit -Me having 1.1, Didn't even get the best player in a draft (before tuning) in a draft that should of been top 3 heavy. -Me trading a good player to the rockets for a bunch of rockets picks thinking that a PG taken at 1.4 with those grades wouldn't be a cheat code. (especially right away) I can't speak to what GMs did or didn't know. I can only point out that every method I used to make Jesse a strong player and likely to sign with me was based on information posted on this board.GMs are supposed to try and do what's best for their teams. If anyone doesn't believe that, trade me your best players for nothing. We all agree to play by certain rules because without rules there is no game, and one of these rules is that the commissioner has unbounded power to intercede regardless of whether any other rule has been broken. It doesn't matter if Jesse 1.0 would have been unbalancing. Everyone was upset about it, therefore he was bad for the league. This is something I've said many many many times, once more doesn't hurt. Why shouldn't I deny that I did anything wrong? I didn't break any rule. I didn't sneak around, because I voluntarily posted everything I was doing the whole way along. I didn't abuse my power as draft master, because Jesse was built exactly as his profile dictated. I didn't exploit my knowledge of the software, because that knowledge was not mine, it was shared by every GM who cared to. . And to reiterate the main point I had hoped to make in this thread, why do you care? Any of you? If I get called underhanded and that's blatantly false I'm going to be heavily invested in that discussion. What's in it for the other guy? I just don't get it. |
|
|
|
Post by Druce on May 17, 2016 13:23:31 GMT -6
lmfao
|
|
victorj24
Former GM
#3030 #neverforget #ohwow
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 191
Joined: January 2015
|
Post by victorj24 on May 17, 2016 13:28:02 GMT -6
I really like eric, but I don't understand his argument/logic/reasoning/explanation at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lazy Pete on May 17, 2016 13:37:03 GMT -6
Ready for another awful analogy?
TMBSL is a knife fight. You spent over a year learning about knives and explaining to the rest of us how knives work. You even start making our knives for us. At some point, you decide that you could make a knife so good it actually is a shotgun. We don't have any explicit rules against making yourself a shotgun, and you're technically allowed to make a knife however you want within certain parameters, so you figure what the hey.
You tell us about how you're going to bring said shotgun to the next knife fight. People don't really notice because, you know, we're busy fighting each other with knives. Also, what kind of asshole brings a shotgun to a knife fight?
Well anyway, we show up for the big rumble the next week, and it turns out someone made a big friggin shotgun. Well that doesn't sound like it's going to be a fun knife fight, does it? So we complain, and the shotgun gets taken away.
Now you're confused, because technically you didn't do anything wrong. But the fact of the matter is you escalated things way beyond where people are comfortable. No one wants to start bringing shotguns to a knife fight, just like no one wants to start a create-a-player arms race.
Think about the logical conclusion of if we allowed Epstein 1.0 to stay in the game: Everybody who could afford it would be saving up to do the same. We'd end up with a league full of 40 point scorers and ridiculously unrealistic stats. Nobody wants that. Hence why we are all so passionately opposed to it, and why what you did, while not against the rules, was wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by Druce on May 17, 2016 13:39:17 GMT -6
My favorite part is asking why people who have invested 5+ years into the league seem to care about what happens in it.
|
|
Trofie
Former GM
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 1,812
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by Trofie on May 17, 2016 13:58:28 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by MistleTacoe on May 17, 2016 14:03:25 GMT -6
All these analogies are really helping me understand and cope with this issue. Thx fam
|
|
Bruns
Former GM
Posts: 4,218
Likes: 1,025
Dump Bucks: 35,800
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by Bruns on May 17, 2016 14:33:48 GMT -6
I think Pete's awful knife analogy is more fitting. Dil thought he was gonna nice big shiny knife only to drop and get a big fucking 12-gauge instead.
|
|
