3045 Rookie Ladder (686 views)

[eric]

preseason and summer league

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1. Tim Duncan



Bledsoe, Kyrie, Blair, Jesus... looks like the Bullets finally have a superstar who was actually good IRL. Duncan was the best summer league player of all time and kept it up in preseason - led all rookies with Ewingian blocks, rebounds, and points per 36, scoring at good efficiency for a big, and threw in some Webberesque passing on top of it. Shooting in the mid 70s from the line in both leagues is another great sign.

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2. Tim Thomas



Double T is only SF eligible, but flashed elite efficiency and rebounding in both leagues. Shot blocking looks good enough for a 6'10" SF, decent handling, all that remains is to camp up his scoring volume and hope TC chips in with his three point shot. There's a big gap between him and Duncan, but he still has superstar potential.

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3. Keith Van Horn



Horny looked just as good as Tim Tom in summer league but fell off in preseason, but he's another 6'10" SF only eligible with good looking efficiency and boards.

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4. Tracy McGrady



I suspect I'll be higher on TMac than most. His efficiency in preseason was bad, but it was electric in summer league. He's 6'8" and SG eligible, he has frankly sensational shot blocking and handling, lower growers for wings. His floor is much lower than the guys above him but his ceiling is much higher, and this is even further exacerbated by his teenage training camp. Did his potential go up? Did it drop 20 points? You could simulate his career ten times and easily get five superstars and five busts. Hope Lazy Pete hasn't run out of voodoo, he's going to need it to persuade RNGesus.

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5. Chauncey Billups



Now we start to fall off pretty dramatically. At point guard Chauncey has good size and rebounding, but his handling needs some work. At shooting guard he's undersized and unimpressive. IanBoyd might be leery trying to make a tweener work at PG given his history but he should stick with Chauncey, he could be a very good PG.

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6. Arthur Agee



Three point ratio loves Agee, but even that only gets him to good efficiency and he's got nothing else going on. It's a thin class though, so for now he can get #6.

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7. Stephen Jackson



The Captain looked frisky in summer league and is SG eligible at 6'8". His biggest strength is handling though, which is not a great thing to hang your hat on as a wing player.

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8. Kelvin Cato



Looks like a good d/r big.

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9. Danny Fortson



This year's Baby Sabonis, except he's only 6'7", and he's a terrible rebounder on top of his terrible shot blocking. There's gonna be a lot of junk after the top five this year, but I hope it's better junk than this guy.

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10. Anthony Parker



It's not a deep class. "Don't Call Me Tony" Parker gets in because he was decent in summer league.

[[Account Deleted]]

Surprised Foyle didn't get in with his 4+ blocks a game and 50%+ scoring in summer league

[20s Navidad]

Wow no respect for Mikki Moore.

[Lazy Pete]

William Gates snubbed

[FectaDEEZ]

I dont expect Mercer to be making an appearance on anyones ladder this year.

[eric]

day 30

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1. Tim Duncan- LR #1



The efficiency hasn't been there in the regular season, but the blocks have been and the rebounding has *exceeded* the very high expectations set before The Sim NBA Regular Season Tipoff Presented By Shaker Kia We're Gonna See Ya in a Shaker Kia. This is the last chance at #1 for him unless the efficiency gets back to average, though.

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2. Keith Van Horn - LR #3



Horny can feel hard done by to only be #2, or he could realize that when you look in the mirror four fingers look back at you - his modest preseason production can't justify jumping Timmy yet. Three point ratio thinks his already good efficiency should tick a little bit up, he's giving you the blocks and the boards, he doesn't have fumble fingers... the Bobcats may finally have found their post Myles superstar. No pressure there.

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3. Tracy McGrady - LR #4



Sighs of reliefe arond Ye Olde Canauda as TMac essentially matches Horny's regular season production. Three point ratio is slightly skeptical but not enough to get him below the plus region. If he can keep this up long enough to wash off the preseason stink Timmy might be looking at #3 when all's said and done.

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4. Chauncey Billups - LR #5



If the ratio is skeptical of McGrady it's Chupon Sneeze-ing all over Mr. Big Shot, but he still has the makings of an elite scorer at point guard. The d/r is only okay and his ast:tov isn't sublime so he's a clear tier below the top three, but if your floor is "good scoring point guard" you're gonna have a lot of years in this league even if I have to mid bid you every year, don't think I won't.

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5. Adonal Foyle- LR unranked



That's a lot of blocks. Needs to sew up the turnover issue but has all the earmarks of an elite d/r big. It's an extremely top heavy class.

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6. Rodrick Rhodes - LR unranked



Another new boy, Rod-Rhod has an unusual build. He scores efficiently without the three ball, he's way undersized underblocked and underrebounded for small forward, he doesn't like to shoot. He could be decent down the road but let's just say I don't think kn88 is gonna be kicking himself over not extending this guy.

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7. Danny Fortson- LR #9



Speaking of Myles Turner and the Bobcats, here's a guy who has no chance of ever being a superstar. Some home run TCs and smart SC/RCs can get his shot blocking to 2ish which will be playable given his ultra elite efficiency, but at 6'7" he'll never start for a great team.

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8. Tim Thomas - LR #2



Timmy the Much Lesser got worse across the board - efficiency, blocks, boards, even ast:tov. I'm hopeful he bounces back because the bottom of this ladder is getting really sad.

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9. Kelvin Cato - LR #8



Still doing a credible d/r job. I would be shocked if he never plays for the Knicks.

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10. Jacque Vaughn - LR unranked



Three point ratio says the coach on the floor is an average efficiency scorer, which tracks with his preseason numbers. He's flashing competent d/r numbers that probably won't hold up, but until they go away he's got a great chance at being on the putrescent lower rungs of the ladder.

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previously ranked
Arthur Agee - got worse at everything and wasn't good to start with
Stephen Jackson - you hope a guy splits the difference between a bad preseason and good summer league. Captain put up even worse numbers. O Captain, Bye Captain.
Anthony "Don't Call Me Someone Who Hasn't Played a Minute" Parker - hasn't played a minute, yeah i'll call you that to your face, what are you gonna do about it punk

[IanBoyd]

Rodrick Rhodes

[FectaDEEZ]

Van Horn looks really really good.

[[Account Deleted]]

Sim Thomas just bounced back a little and looks better

[IanBoyd]

Mar 12, 2017 20:15:50 GMT -6 [Account Deleted] said:

Sim Thomas just bounced back a little and looks better

"This is fine, everything is fine, I'm fine"

[[Account Deleted]]

We can work with this:

459 Tim Thomas SF 30 17.8 8.5 3.8 1.0 0.5 0.4 1.0 .465 .826 .413

[eric]

day 60

rookies across the board hit the wall hard, it's gonna be an ugly update

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1. Keith Van Horn - LR #2



Horny didn't fall off far, he's still legitimately good across the board. Am I surprised that the only prospect in heavyreign's software still playing well is HWHITE? I'm disappointed. But I'm not surprised.

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2. Chauncey Billups - LR #4



Chauncey has average efficiency and rebounding and decent handles. That's all it takes, folks. It's a rough class right now.

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3. Adonal Foyle - LR #5



Still putting up elite d/r numbers, still needs to work on the handle. Has more turnovers than made field goals.

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4. Tim Duncan - LR #1



Pete's cursing powers went to former fellow Canadian GM Ian Boyd, and this one's a doozy. Duncan's scoring efficiency has absolutely cratered and with his scoring volume that's catastrophic. Efficiency doesn't tend to grow for bigs either, so he could be in real trouble going forward if he finishes the season with numbers like these, but judging from preseason I think he'll rebound to at least average efficiency.

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5. Tariq Abdul-Wahad - LR unranked



Don't be fooled by the SF tag, he's a profile SG and that's where he clearly ought to play at 6'6". He's here on the strength of his preseason performance - plus efficiency with low volume is a great sign (if it holds up) because it probably means he can take Inside camps and boost that efficiency even higher. Blocks and rebounds are solid for SG.

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6. Mikel Huh - LR unranked



Huh? Clearly a C C+ scorer isn't going to keep up elite efficiency and his rebounds are awful, but he's 6'10" SG eligible so even if he only scores at average efficiency there's a lot to leverage here.

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7. Tim Thomas - LR #8



He stinks. But with a few good TCs he could be decent at everything, which makes for a solid player.

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8. Derek Anderson - LR unranked



He's undersized and not good enough defensively to play SG with his mediocre scoring ability, but SG profile and B- Handling gives him a shot at PG eligibility, which could be very interesting.

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9. Andres Johnson - LR unranked



He's an okay d/r guy - his rebounding especially is too low, but he's got by far the lowest points per 36 of the d/r crop, and it's much much much much much easier to increase rebounding than decrease scoring volume.

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10. Danny Fortson- LR #7



Forty Ought-a Block has seen his scoring efficiency drop to decent big man levels, and if you score like a big man and defend like a point guard there's no place for you in this league. Blocks can grow like crazy so he's still got a chance, but he was a lot more interesting when he scored like a wing.

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previously ranked
TMac and RodRhod both saw their scoring drop to unforgivable levels. Which is Clint and which is Morgan I leave as an exercise to the reader.
Kelvin Cato has a decent argument to be on the list, he's a decent d/r guy.
Jacque Vaughn is getting an early start on his next career - those that can't do, coach.

[Odin]

FWIW switched from outside to inside since the last update

[FectaDEEZ]

Is fucking Keith Van Horn gonna be the best player in this class?

[20s Navidad]

Yeah, the only rookie in the All Star Game is #4

[Lazy Pete]

Figured McGrady was gonna plummet. He's started out hot but really faded the last few sims

[Heebs]

This is ClydeR genius level trolling.

Bravo, eric!

[IanBoyd]

I'm a fellow Canadian now?

[eric]

Mar 15, 2017 12:23:50 GMT -6 IanBoyd said:

I'm a fellow Canadian now?

former

you're lucky you immigrated from Minnesota Alberta Canada during the last administration though, hard to imagine even an injured wolf receiving refugee status these days

[Deleted]

eric is gonna hate on TD like he hates on AD

[eric]

day 90

i want to stress again that this is an extremely top heavy class
there are a handful of guys with superstar potential
and then a revolving door of garbage below them

also, i pulled stats from day 90 to do the analysis, but there's been another sim since then so you're looking at day 99 stats


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1. Keith Van Horn - LR #1



The biggest problem the Bobcats are going to have with Horny is finding places where he can take SCs. Extremely high floor, if he gets even mediocre TCs he's a HoFer.

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2. Chauncey Billups - LR #2



Chauncey's efficiency continues to creep towards very good, and he isn't falling behind anywhere else. Ratio doesn't buy his three point percentage but it's not wildly far off. The low for a point guard passing is a huge boon - not only will he spend more time shooting the ball but it opens the door for Epstein style resigns.

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3. Tim Duncan - LR #4



Efficiency crept up a little, too bad he can't play the Knicks every night. His unusually high minutes make his d/r look slightly better than it actually is, but it's still league wide elite as a rookie, and it shouldn't be hard to camp his efficiency up to league average, and then it's over.

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4. Adonal Foyle - LR #3



The perfect d/r big except for the turnovers. Doesn't shoot enough or well enough to trick a GM into a futile scoring investment. Blocks for days. Rebounding needs a little work but TC alone should knock that out.

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5. Tim Thomas - LR #7



TiTh is 90% of KVH (see what I did there) so he's not good right now, but he's good enough in all areas that with average growth he'll be very good. If he lays some TC eggs he'll be just another guy.

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6. William Gates - LR unranked



The software darling gets in because he's an only slightly below average efficiency scorer. He looks terrible defensively at 6'0" and very bad rebounding. The bottom of the class stinks, what do you want from me.

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7. Tariq Abdul-Wahad - LR #5



Still flashing elite scoring in limited time.

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8. Scoonie Penberthy - LR unranked



His volume and grades are probably too low for his efficiency to be league average, but for now he's in. His rebounding is truly comical. Tim Duncan has a better ast:tov (1.87) than Scoonie has reb per 36 (1.50). He's essentially William Gates with less reason to believe even his modest level of production is sustainable.

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9. Kelvin Cato - LR unranked



He's a d/r big.

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10. Mikki Moore - LR unranked



Him too.

[IanBoyd]

pfft Tim Thomas

[Lazy Pete]

no love for Mark Blount?

[[Account Deleted]]

Mar 20, 2017 9:44:32 GMT -6 IanBoyd said:

pfft Tim Thomas

[20s Navidad]

Fucking finally Mikki Moore gets some well deserved respect.

[eric]

Mar 20, 2017 10:04:52 GMT -6 Lazy Pete said:

no love for Mark Blount?

huh weird, the spread sheet pulled him as 0s across the board. i'll double check him when i pull for day 120

[[Account Deleted]]

Mar 20, 2017 11:01:33 GMT -6 eric said:

Mar 20, 2017 10:04:52 GMT -6 Lazy Pete said:

no love for Mark Blount?

huh weird, the spread sheet pulled him as 0s across the board. i'll double check him when i pull for day 120

He's probably better than Adonal Foyle. Just as many blocks and rebounds but not as many turnovers.

[FectaDEEZ]

A lot of good D/R bigs in this class.

[eric]

day 120

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1. Keith Van Horn - LR #1



It's a 1A and 1B type situation. You could give me either of the top two and I'd be very happy. I gave Horny the edge because he's got a higher floor: he's already good at literally everything: scoring volume, efficiency, rebounding, defense, handling, height. Everything you want a player to do he can do. He's not incredible in any one area, but his biggest strength is Jump Shot, which I mean come on. Because he's already good at everything his GM might not be able to SC/RC anywhere all that useful and so have to rely on TC to turn him into a truly elite player, but like I said before if that's your biggest problem you're in a great spot.

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2. Tim Duncan- LR #3



As predicted Duncan (almost) got back to average scoring efficiency. He's already an elite rebounder and shot blocker, there's two elite skills right there. The only thing keeping him behind Horny is that average scoring for a big is a minus when you get right down to it, as are two turnovers per game as a big. They're not crippling, and they're easily invested around so he's definitely got a higher ceiling, but if he stays like this he'll be a GM killer: not really a superstar but not obtainable unless you max him.

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3. Chauncey Billups - LR #2



He's a solid scorer and d/r man at point guard. Needs a little love in handling but not that much. Unlikely to ever be a superstar but starting on a championship team isn't out of the question.

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4. Tim Thomas - LR #5



TimTho was neck and neck with KeiHor to start the year so in that sense he's been a disappointment, but there's still plenty to work with here. Average efficiency, decent shot blocking and rebounding, good size. It's gonna take a miracle for him to catch back up, but "solid starter" is a reasonable expectation with some luck and smart investment.

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5. Mark Blount- LR unranked



I don't know how he got pulled as all zeros, my bad. He's clearly the best d/r big in the class and frankly he's in the conversation for best d/r big in the league. Legit seven footer, blocks nearly as many shots per 36 (4.5) as he scores points (5.1), rebounding is good but not great (for now), his biggest issue is he turns it over too much. I would try to sneak in a rebounding camp before he grows out of being able to take one, but it probably won't even matter.

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6. Adonal Foyle- LR #4



In any other class Foyle would be the top d/r man. Them's the breaks.

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7. Arthur Agee - LR unranked



And now we're into the scraps. Three point ratio loves AA and boy does he ever need the love. As before the season he's giving you nothing else but the promise of slightly above average scoring, and as before the season it's good enough.

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8. Tariq Abdul-Wahad - LR #7



Hasn't gotten any minutes as the sim Lakers mirrored the disgraceful irl Lakers' tactic of benching their best players, but in a class devoid of even mediocre players his flashes of brilliance are still enough. Plus I want everyone to remember the name Tariq Abdul-Wahad in case a certain GM thought he could hide him. Tariq Abdul-Wahad.

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9. Scot Pollard- LR unranked



Great Scot, unlike Tariq Abdul-Wahad, is a solid d/r guy. Not good, but solid. Doesn't have the fumble fingers of the other bigs in this class but is well behind on shot blocking, so you could say he has a higher ceiling, but either way he's a d/r guy.

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10. Kelvin Cato - LR #9



Him too.

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rest of lotto:

Tracy McGrady - woof. The good news is he has shot blocking and handling, which are slow growers. The bad news is his efficiency needs a ton of work.
Antonio Daniels - looked really sharp in preseason but terrible in summer league. Summer fun, something's begun, 'cuz oh, oh, he stinks.
William Gates - the lack of summer league development really crippled Lil' Feist (get it, Gates, Gatekeeper, Zuul, spandex outfits, Feist). He could be an okay scorer but his handles and d/r are pitiful.
Stephen JakeShuttlesworth'son - imagine if TMac scored even worse and also didn't block shots and also turned it over too much.
Mikki Moore - he's not terrible, but he shoots too much and too poorly and doesn't block enough to make up for it.
Maurice Taylor - a decent tanking big

stats:

pts/tsa blk/36 ast:tov reb/36 pts/36 xp/t mp Player
1.086 1.19 1.21 8.62 25.98 1.080 2004 Keith Van Horn SF
0.951 3.75 1.87 13.38 26.18 0.951 3067 Tim Duncan C
1.055 0.20 2.78 5.51 24.99 1.066 2753 Chauncey Billups PG
1.038 0.72 1.09 8.06 17.01 1.046 1508 Tim Thomas SF
0.841 4.50 1.10 10.69 5.06 0.841 1133 Mark Blount C
0.825 4.03 0.59 11.68 7.09 0.825 1658 Adonal Foyle C
0.989 0.21 2.09 3.70 13.58 1.056 2730 Arthur Agee PG
1.130 0.00 0.56 6.19 16.31 1.185 134 Tariq Abdul-Wahad SF
0.724 3.10 2.00 10.06 9.29 0.724 242 Scot Pollard C
0.768 2.98 0.76 11.23 9.20 0.768 2181 Kelvin Cato PF
0.865 1.10 0.73 9.88 13.55 0.866 2272 Allyn Coleman PF
0.865 0.00 2.00 3.06 9.19 0.863 183 Alvin Williams PG
0.780 2.01 2.50 8.22 4.93 0.782 1615 Andres Johnson PF
0.960 0.44 1.69 3.95 11.27 0.969 2017 Antonio Daniels PG
1.120 0.29 0.78 10.74 20.03 1.128 186 Austin Croshere PF
0.913 0.43 1.33 7.67 8.95 0.913 1386 Brian Schader C
0.534 1.46 0.60 11.68 4.38 0.597 89 Cedric Henderson SF
0.896 0.32 1.57 7.65 16.25 0.899 859 Charles O'Bannon SG
0.937 0.75 1.11 7.35 7.99 0.952 2704 Charles Smith SF
0.906 1.73 1.33 12.14 10.41 0.906 564 Chris Anstey C
1.150 1.89 2.67 6.63 21.79 #DIV/0! 23 Damon Jones SG
0.985 0.24 0.69 9.73 25.30 0.985 2427 Danny Fortson C
0.861 0.00 1.92 3.30 10.39 0.918 1164 Dejuan Wheat PG
1.022 0.21 1.80 6.19 19.21 1.032 2813 Derek Anderson SG
0.841 1.30 1.67 8.59 9.41 0.841 1820 Desmond Marbury C
0.856 1.15 1.00 8.04 5.17 0.863 1316 Don Zimmermann PF
1.025 0.71 2.40 6.00 22.24 0.910 61 Ed Gray SG
0.180 0.00 0.62 8.83 2.04 #DIV/0! 32 Eric Washington SG
1.013 0.34 3.08 3.18 16.13 1.010 2473 God Shammgod PG
0.889 1.09 2.00 6.55 8.73 #DIV/0! 33 Isaac Hiscock SG
0.998 0.00 2.17 4.68 17.30 1.002 162 Jacque Vaughn PG
0.911 1.57 2.11 9.44 8.56 0.911 144 John Thomas C
0.920 0.58 1.50 7.83 9.58 0.927 2526 Keith Booth SF
0.829 0.83 1.07 7.92 8.62 0.831 2046 Kris Shireman PF
0.948 1.29 1.33 11.89 15.11 0.948 1837 Marc Jackson C
0.855 0.36 0.64 10.34 16.78 0.853 2427 Maurice Taylor C
0.831 1.49 1.14 8.02 3.40 0.834 2173 Micah Hobson PF
0.971 0.45 1.08 4.98 8.38 0.994 1304 Michael Redd SG
0.986 0.00 1.00 3.80 6.59 0.998 1164 Mikel Huh SF
0.892 2.86 1.45 11.18 10.50 0.892 2165 Mikki Moore PF
0.819 1.59 0.86 11.12 14.29 0.819 1115 Pat Burke C
1.018 0.31 1.63 6.62 11.38 1.019 2854 Percy Miller SG
0.813 1.07 0.67 7.29 12.86 0.822 1109 Randy Harrington PF
0.799 0.65 0.67 10.19 9.98 0.800 1179 Raul Nichols PF
0.950 0.24 1.40 5.56 7.01 0.940 1222 Rodrick Rhodes SF
0.930 0.21 1.22 6.82 14.49 1.005 625 Ron Mercer SG
0.959 1.38 2.40 2.08 10.38 0.969 276 Scoonie Penberthy PG
0.958 0.18 1.56 6.28 16.62 0.953 1599 Stephen Jackson SF
1.200 3.09 0.00 10.29 15.43 #DIV/0! 14 Tony Battie C
0.996 1.12 2.50 7.83 19.03 1.017 1583 Tracy McGrady SF
1.020 0.24 5.00 4.71 20.71 0.972 122 Troy Hudson PG
1.015 0.33 1.81 3.36 23.96 1.045 2689 William Gates PG
0.937 0.26 0.73 6.00 11.09 0.907 1932 Zeke Bellamy SG

[[Account Deleted]]

Scot Pollard .724 points per tsa

LMAO