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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:00:59 GMT -6
Game 1 is over. Civs won. I have a few thoughts to share. Feel free to post your own on Game 1. Let's try to keep it clean though, fellas.
First we'll start with the dry:
RULES AND STUFF
- Shout is a problem. It was just annoying at first when live players would shout about the game, but it became a major problem when we had all the dead players blowing up shout. Unfortunately, I think we're going to have to ban all Mafia shout talk while a game is ongoing
- To give the dead people an outlet for their emotion (mostly angst), we will start a Group PM and add Civs as they die.
- There was some talk about how dead mafia should be cut off from mafia conversations after they die. I get the rationale behind that, but I disagree. Main goal of this game is to have fun, and a big part of that fun as a mafia member is being in the secret lair and discussing your strategy. Also helps players to learn/grow if they stay engaged in those strategic discussions throughout the game. Also important to express that dying isn't always a bad thing for this. Sometimes it's good to die in Mafia. I don't want to set up a system that overly rewards those who stay alive.
- Likes and Dislikes - Unfortunately, these have to go too. If you agree with a post, quote it and say so. If you are a dead player, you can only read the thread.
- Pete posted a Google Spreadsheet with votes. I liked the initiative. But something like that should probably be created/maintained by a non-player going forward.
Pretty much all these rules are done with the intention of keeping all moves and quotes maintained within the online thread itself. It's an essential part of online mafia to have that record available so that players can look back at past events.
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Post by SPL on Jun 6, 2017 11:09:39 GMT -6
It was a ton of fun, I think Odin and JHB did a real good job of misdirection and stiring votes on others.
I think the mafia even after death should be able to talk to each other.
Would like to see more roles in the next round
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:10:20 GMT -6
Meta Game Stuff
- As you may have noticed, the most interesting part of Mafia is the game within the game. Basically, how the town behaves. What behaviors the town rewards and what behaviors the town punishes. Those things will evolve over time, and imo that is the most rewarding part of mafia. So I don't want to overly influence how you guys play, but thought I'd mention a few things.
- Majority Votes. In this game, 60% of the days ended in a majority execution. That is way more than is normal in my experience. I'm not sure it's wise to zero in on 2 players each round. Majority votes also cut the round short, which is generally good for the mafia as it curtails discussion. In my experience, the majority vote is only used when it is blatantly obvious if someone is mafia (Cop investigates them, change their vote at last second to save themselves).
- Altruism. A big mistake people can make is thinking that dying is always a bad thing in the game. Don't have that mindset. The only goal of the game is for the team to win. The Civs who made it to the end are no more victorious than the glorious dead.
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Post by eric on Jun 6, 2017 11:10:36 GMT -6
this was a lot of fun thanks ANK1990, looking forward to more. my thoughts -don't talk about other peoples' families or loved ones. -it was extremely entertaining watching peoples' reasoning. the main thing that makes strategy so tricky is you don't know what people are or aren't gonna pick up on, and how they'll react to it if so. -it's also deeply recursive: take mafia voting against each other. you know that's what they'd do to throw people off the scent, but if they know you know that then they can trick you by voting for civs, but if you know they know you know that's what you'd expect them to do, but if they know you know they know you know etc. -i definitely don't think we need any more roles. we didn't even get to explore the cop role this time and we were still fumbling in the dark. -i do think one thing that could help is having a randomized choice of which person has to vote first in each round. we haven't had too many issues with it yet but especially early on the winning move is pretty clearly not to play, so it would get the ball rolling in each game. not saying we should implement it for game two, but just a thought |
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:12:35 GMT -6
It was a ton of fun, I think Odin and JHB did a real good job of misdirection and stiring votes on others. I think the mafia even after death should be able to talk to each other. Would like to see more roles in the next round We can slowly introduce new roles, but I really don't think we should push that too hard just yet. You guys need to learn how to play the Vanilla game competently before we add the bells and whistles. I'll also note, that I've been playing mafia for like 8 years at this point, and I'd much rather play a vanilla game than one where everyone has a role. Vanilla mafia vs. Crazy themed games is reminiscent of the old software vs. new software debate. |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 6, 2017 11:14:52 GMT -6
Thank you ANK1990 for running it and all the participants for an active game. I like ank's suggestions and all of eric's except mandating who has to cast the first vote each round. |
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Post by Odin on Jun 6, 2017 11:15:12 GMT -6
i have nothing constructive to say except that i'm voting to lynch eric until he dies in every game moving forward
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:15:43 GMT -6
this was a lot of fun thanks ANK1990 , looking forward to more. my thoughts -don't talk about other peoples' families or loved ones. -it was extremely entertaining watching peoples' reasoning. the main thing that makes strategy so tricky is you don't know what people are or aren't gonna pick up on, and how they'll react to it if so. -it's also deeply recursive: take mafia voting against each other. you know that's what they'd do to throw people off the scent, but if they know you know that then they can trick you by voting for civs, but if you know they know you know that's what you'd expect them to do, but if they know you know they know you know etc. -i definitely don't think we need any more roles. we didn't even get to explore the cop role this time and we were still fumbling in the dark. -i do think one thing that could help is having a randomized choice of which person has to vote first in each round. we haven't had too many issues with it yet but especially early on the winning move is pretty clearly not to play, so it would get the ball rolling in each game. not saying we should implement it for game two, but just a thought 1. Agreed, but this will naturally fall away 3. 4. Agreed 5. There is no need for a rule on this. This is something the Civs can enact themselves by rewarding/punishing certain behaviors. |
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Post by SPL on Jun 6, 2017 11:17:18 GMT -6
this was a lot of fun thanks ANK1990 , looking forward to more. my thoughts -don't talk about other peoples' families or loved ones. -it was extremely entertaining watching peoples' reasoning. the main thing that makes strategy so tricky is you don't know what people are or aren't gonna pick up on, and how they'll react to it if so. -it's also deeply recursive: take mafia voting against each other. you know that's what they'd do to throw people off the scent, but if they know you know that then they can trick you by voting for civs, but if you know they know you know that's what you'd expect them to do, but if they know you know they know you know etc. -i definitely don't think we need any more roles. we didn't even get to explore the cop role this time and we were still fumbling in the dark. -i do think one thing that could help is having a randomized choice of which person has to vote first in each round. we haven't had too many issues with it yet but especially early on the winning move is pretty clearly not to play, so it would get the ball rolling in each game. not saying we should implement it for game two, but just a thought To be honest, I would have said the same things in the thread if I was mafia that I said as a civ in that game. |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 6, 2017 11:18:38 GMT -6
ANK1990 are you able to edit/delete this post?
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Post by Odin on Jun 6, 2017 11:19:40 GMT -6
actually, I do have one request for the sake of the mafia
can the role assignment pm not start with the same word the game thread does? it's quite tricky using multiple tabs and i was very close to posting mafia shit in the thread multiple times. maybe something like "You are: role" maybe, idk, be creative, just not "mafia assignment"
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:20:50 GMT -6
actually, I do have one request for the sake of the mafia can the role assignment pm not start with the same word the game thread does? it's quite tricky using multiple tabs and i was very close to posting mafia shit in the thread multiple times. maybe something like "You are: role" maybe, idk, be creative, just not "mafia assignment" Yes, good call. Also, let's try to keep inter-mafia discussion contained to the PM chain itself whenever possible. |
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:21:26 GMT -6
ANK1990 are you able to edit/delete this post? Don't think so. Should it be in the drop-down when I click the gear? |
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Post by Odin on Jun 6, 2017 11:21:35 GMT -6
my internet sucks and texting is easier. start a discord or groupme.
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Post by [Account Deleted] on Jun 6, 2017 11:21:46 GMT -6
The best move in the game was 20s list of verified mafia/non-mafia.
I had a serious moral dilemma about lying about that but eric and Odin didn't and I was afraid 20s would peg us all on Day 2
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Post by Odin on Jun 6, 2017 11:21:56 GMT -6
ANK1990 are you able to edit/delete this post? Don't think so. Should it be in the drop-down when I click the gear? gear>moderate>delete post |
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:23:21 GMT -6
Don't think so. Should it be in the drop-down when I click the gear? gear>moderate>delete post I see myself listed as a Moderator, but I don't see "moderate" in the drop down |
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Post by Odin on Jun 6, 2017 11:24:20 GMT -6
The best move in the game was 20s list of verified mafia/non-mafia. I had a serious moral dilemma about lying about that but eric and Odin didn't and I was afraid 20s would peg us all on Day 2 i just see no reason to ever answer that question. no moral dilemma here. would have lied if i had thought it would have helped. |
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Post by gbgalla24 on Jun 6, 2017 11:24:31 GMT -6
Twas fun. I was glad that I had a couple slow days at the office to dive in head first.
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:26:36 GMT -6
One other thing, I was very lenient about editing posts, night posting, even dead posting as this was a learning experience for everybody.
But that well will be running dry pretty quick. As a player, you should just condition yourself to not break those rules.
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 6, 2017 11:26:59 GMT -6
ANK1990 are you able to edit/delete this post? Don't think so. Should it be in the drop-down when I click the gear? Yeah, there should be a moderate option to delete there. Will change more settings. |
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Post by Delap on Jun 6, 2017 11:32:18 GMT -6
I didn't 100% trust 20s... so I didn't directly answer the mafia question either... just as a precaution.
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:35:11 GMT -6
Don't think so. Should it be in the drop-down when I click the gear? Yeah, there should be a moderate option to delete there. Will change more settings. Works now. Thanks 20s |
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Post by gbgalla24 on Jun 6, 2017 11:48:21 GMT -6
One other thing, I was very lenient about editing posts, night posting, even dead posting as this was a learning experience for everybody. But that well will be running dry pretty quick. As a player, you should just condition yourself to not break those rules. My one night post was the same minute that you posted that it was night. |
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 11:50:08 GMT -6
One other thing, I was very lenient about editing posts, night posting, even dead posting as this was a learning experience for everybody. But that well will be running dry pretty quick. As a player, you should just condition yourself to not break those rules. My one night post was the same minute that you posted that it was night. Yeah, there's typically a small window of leniency in such scenarios where people are posting simultaneously. |
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Post by SPL on Jun 6, 2017 11:53:48 GMT -6
I would not mind not allowing people to switch votes, once you put it in bold that is your vote and you have to stick to it. I don't know it was fun to persuade votes to flip.
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Post by [Account Deleted] on Jun 6, 2017 11:56:43 GMT -6
I think you have to allow it. You get the most info when people switch votes
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Post by Odin on Jun 6, 2017 11:59:05 GMT -6
Originally i was team no flip. Now i dont know
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Post by KwYawnza on Jun 6, 2017 12:03:45 GMT -6
Vote flipping is important methinks
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 6, 2017 12:13:01 GMT -6
Yeah you definitely need to be able to change your vote.
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