RWisoursavior
Former GM 
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Joined: June 2014
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Post by RWisoursavior on May 22, 2015 11:13:33 GMT -6
Also, all letter grades are not equal. Someone can be a better player than someone and not have it reflect in the letter grades. If every time a player was better than another player you had to bump their grade at least one in the displayed grades, we would end up with players with A+++++++++ as their grades. Secondly, their reputation and projected draft spot also factor in greatly to their value. Chris Childs was a 2nd rounder who had a decent NBA career so I wanted to make him at least a somewhat interesting prospect despite his college production. I think everyone realized that Chris Childs wasn't likely to turn into much while a guy like Clyde Drexler was elite even though they had the same scoring letter grades. Everyone besides you apparently realizes there is more nuance and many factors that are going into how a player is built and how attractive they are as a prospect. It isn't as black and white as you keep trying to make it out to be. Third, as I have matured as draft master I have learned that assigning the grades is more about giving a player a chance to succeed in this league and become the type of player they either were in real life or were expected to be in real life. Often times, this means bumping a big's inside grade or their outside grade even when their college statistics wouldn't dictate doing so just so they can have a chance at being a useful player in sim. When I first started, I was making grades directly off of stats how you are arguing now. I believe that I learned and grew from that and now consider many more factors when I am grading a prospect. Gerald Henderson was a lotto pick who didn't have amazing college numbers and has had an uninspiring career in the NBA. I gave him good enough grades to make GMs consider him as a lotto pick even though all GMs were apparently able to realize he wasn't the same level of prospect as guys like Drexler and Aguirre are. I completely agree with everything you said, just think you overlooked or misjudged Aguirre. I'm not saying you're a bad DM by any means I've tried to make that clear. |
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Post by Druce on May 22, 2015 11:20:22 GMT -6
Holy shit.
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Post by 20s Navidad on May 22, 2015 11:20:58 GMT -6
I know you're not saying I am a bad DM, I just don't understand why you can't accept the reasoning I have given and move on. Instead you insist on continuing a fruitless argument and keep quoting college stats when I have said a) that is not all grades are based on and b) not everyone with better college stats has to have better letter grades. It simply cannot work that way.
Aguirre as a prospect is built with the ability to be an elite wing in this league. Yet you are complaining on end about it after I have given my explanation in what I consider a very civil and polite manner. Now you are just starting to get on my nerves.
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Post by Druce on May 22, 2015 11:22:46 GMT -6
Not since Hank Gathers has someone gone to this length about a prospect.
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Post by KwYawnza on May 22, 2015 11:32:19 GMT -6
Ha. This is gorgeous.
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Post by Lazy Pete on May 24, 2015 9:03:11 GMT -6
It's official. RW has smoked himself retarded
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Post by Heynong Man on May 24, 2015 10:18:01 GMT -6
i mean do you not read a single thing written by anyone else?
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Post by dilworth on May 24, 2015 16:18:26 GMT -6
pc
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Bankz
Former GM
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Post by Bankz on May 24, 2015 17:34:24 GMT -6
Based on how 20's has handled RW in this thread I can say with great confidence he's going to be a good dad.
I would of told RW to suck my dick a half dozen times by now.
Oh and RW remember when I called you stupid... and you asked for an example of said stupidity.... just bookmark this thread.
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Post by Odin on May 24, 2015 17:50:37 GMT -6
1. who gives a shit 2. i haven't even heard of mark aguirre before 3. rw is just upset that he dropped again 4. B C+ scoring:  |
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RWisoursavior
Former GM
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 128
Joined: June 2014
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Post by RWisoursavior on May 24, 2015 19:42:05 GMT -6
I challenge those that disagree with me to find a comparable player with college production/draft position that has the same or similar scoring grades (I can list well over 20 who are inferior players with the same grades).
The closest and best imo is Glenn Robinson. Averaged 27.5 PPG on 48 FG% he also won player of the year and went #1 overall. Aguirre and Robinson went on to have similar NBA careers too, Aguirre with 20/5/3 on 48 Fg % with 3 all-star games Robinson with 21/6/3 46 fg% with 2 all-star games.
Robinson's scoring grades? B+ B- with B potential.
Yes, stats are not a direct correlation to what grades should be, but they are the baseline for judging prospects along with other factors like draft position and potential.
As 20's has said and Odin has shown all grades are not the same, but that's a disservice to Aguirre. He came out as a guy who could contribute immediately with a lower ceiling. There should be a measurable grade difference between prospects who are POTY and went #1, and players who are fringe lotto picks and could be out of the league after their rookie deals.
All I'm saying is Mark Aguirre is closer to Glenn Robinson than he is to Clyde Drexler.
If you disagree with me that's fine, but to believe my claim is 'stupid' or 'retarded' is absurd.
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Post by Heebs on May 24, 2015 19:57:33 GMT -6
Your behavior is childish, short sighted, and nearly unbearable. Just stop.
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RWisoursavior
Former GM
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 128
Joined: June 2014
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Post by RWisoursavior on May 24, 2015 20:00:22 GMT -6
Your behavior is childish, short sighted, and nearly unbearable. Just stop. Why can't we just discuss a prospect and what went into his grades? I've tried my best to make a respectful, evidence based argument. |
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Post by 2poor on May 24, 2015 20:02:39 GMT -6
Your behavior is childish, short sighted, and nearly unbearable. Just stop. What if I told you rw has said he aspires to be Colin Cowherd? Would literally everything about him make sense all of a sudden? |
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Post by Heebs on May 24, 2015 20:06:20 GMT -6
Your behavior is childish, short sighted, and nearly unbearable. Just stop. Why can't we just discuss a prospect and what went into his grades? I've tried my best to make a respectful, evidence based argument. We did that for a long time and you have ignored everything we have told you and continued to throw one of the more impressive temper tantrums I've ever seen. |
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RWisoursavior
Former GM
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 128
Joined: June 2014
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Post by RWisoursavior on May 24, 2015 20:13:32 GMT -6
Why can't we just discuss a prospect and what went into his grades? I've tried my best to make a respectful, evidence based argument. We did that for a long time and you have ignored everything we have told you and continued to throw one of the more impressive temper tantrums I've ever seen. Where is my tantrum? Just because I continue to disagree with his reasoning doesn't mean I'm throwing some tantrum. Why can't we just have discussion about disagreements without pinning some huge emotions over it? Go look at the Blake Griffin thread, I made a similar claim, 20's said I was wrong and provided evidence, I looked up why he said I was wrong and he was right and that was that. In this case I still feel the evidence is in my favor and have provided civil, logical facts and opinions about the matter at hand. |
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Post by Heebs on May 24, 2015 20:16:41 GMT -6
You continue to compare a wings starting grades to big men. You continue to ignore the fact that Aguirre has similar or better grades than the other elite wings in the league. You are making the same bad points over and over and demanding we continue to respond to them or admit defeat. As the father of two, it is the definition of a tantrum.
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RWisoursavior
Former GM
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 128
Joined: June 2014
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Post by RWisoursavior on May 24, 2015 20:23:25 GMT -6
You continue to compare a wings starting grades to big men. You continue to ignore the fact that Aguirre has similar or better grades than the other elite wings in the league. You are making the same bad points over and over and demanding we continue to respond to them or admit defeat. As the father of two, it is the definition of a tantrum. Where have I compared them to big men outside of the early post with Blake? It was a misguided point though. I agree that he has similar grades to elite wings and even the potential to be great, denying that is absurd. What I am saying is they are not the right grades for him. Taking his circumstances he should have different grades -- better starting scoring grades and lower potential. Thanks for allowing me to clarify, that probably has been lost in this exchange. |
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Post by Face-in on May 24, 2015 20:26:21 GMT -6
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Post by dilworth on May 24, 2015 20:39:11 GMT -6
Someone needs to grab Kevin Lynam before 1.4 or we're all in trouble.
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Post by Souper Troopers on May 24, 2015 22:03:54 GMT -6
He's just an average free throw shooter who doesn't shoot more than a couple of 3s a game. Not sure why there is a fuss about a C+ outside grade.
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Post by 20s Navidad on May 25, 2015 8:14:23 GMT -6
RW keeps asking why we can't have a discussion but a discussion requires two parties which listen (or in this case read) to the other person and respond accordingly. You are not reading what I saying, not absorbing it, or choosing to be willfully obtuse by continuing to pound the his college stats don't line up to his grades drum. I've already said countless times that that won't always be the case and given reasoning as to why. Yet you continue to beat that dead horse as if you are paying no attention to what the other party writes. That is why we can't have a discussion.
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Post by Druce on May 25, 2015 8:18:35 GMT -6
Is there an ignore feature on this forum?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 8:31:26 GMT -6
Aguirre is not Top 2 worthy IMO
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Bankz
Former GM
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Post by Bankz on May 25, 2015 8:36:10 GMT -6
Aguirre is not Top 2 worthy IMO My Big Board... 1) Tobi 2) Aguirre |
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Post by 2poor on May 25, 2015 8:46:32 GMT -6
Tobey Maguire?
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Post by Druce on May 25, 2015 8:47:56 GMT -6
Moby Perspire?
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Post by KwYawnza on May 25, 2015 9:30:52 GMT -6
I never liked Moby's sets.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 9:33:30 GMT -6
Aguirre is not Top 2 worthy IMO My Big Board... 1) Tobi 2) Aguirre 1. Isiah 2. Savage 3. Aguirre 4. Tobi |
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Bankz
Former GM
Posts: 7,254
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Dump Bucks: 18,475
Joined: April 2014
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Post by Bankz on May 25, 2015 9:41:25 GMT -6
My Big Board... 1) Tobi 2) Aguirre 1. Isiah 2. Savage 3. Aguirre 4. Tobi That's not my big board... I'm already giving away enough free info but I'll show you my top 4 1) Tobi 2) Aguirre 3) Zeke 4) Savage |
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