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Post by Druce on Jul 21, 2015 7:18:14 GMT -6
all this thread needs is ian, hank gathers, and myself.
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 7:25:13 GMT -6
all this thread needs is ian, hank gathers, and myself.  |
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Post by Druce on Jul 21, 2015 7:35:16 GMT -6
lol. i think paul george turned out just fine too. i think complaining about grades is useless b/c really it's up to the commish to make the players useful or useless and that can be done outside of C- in an important category.
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jul 21, 2015 8:29:36 GMT -6
I think as 20s pointed out on shout yesterday, the biggest fear people have looking at these grades is that Russell will end up as a middle of the road big, since he's going to take away shots from more efficient perimeter players no matter what but doesn't have the kind of grade set that one expects of a big who will be a dominant scorer (which he shouldn't).
However, my biggest issue with it, which has been addressed but I still don't think fully addressed, is that his starting defensive grade was B+ with a C potential. Bill Russell was considered one of the greatest defenders ever in college and led his team to two NCAA championships. If he is a C potential, which means some growth but mostly a finished product, he should have no lower than an A defensive grade to start.
Mainly, the bitching about Russell is because he is widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, and Odin went very conservative with the grades. Most of the time, that wouldn't be a huge issue, but there are certain players who are going to draw a lot of attention and scrutiny. Bill Russell is one of them.
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 8:35:32 GMT -6
I think as 20s pointed out on shout yesterday, the biggest fear people have looking at these grades is that Russell will end up as a middle of the road big, since he's going to take away shots from more efficient perimeter players no matter what but doesn't have the kind of grade set that one expects of a big who will be a dominant scorer (which he shouldn't). However, my biggest issue with it, which has been addressed but I still don't think fully addressed, is that his starting defensive grade was B+ with a C potential. Bill Russell was considered one of the greatest defenders ever in college and led his team to two NCAA championships. If he is a C potential, which means some growth but mostly a finished product, he should have no lower than an A defensive grade to start. Mainly, the bitching about Russell is because he is widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, and Odin went very conservative with the grades. Most of the time, that wouldn't be a huge issue, but there are certain players who are going to draw a lot of attention and scrutiny. Bill Russell is one of them.
Where's all the uprising for this one? |
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Trofie
Former GM 
Posts: 6,207
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Post by Trofie on Jul 21, 2015 8:36:40 GMT -6
40 jumping won't get him to A inside That makes sense. Dejuan Blair |
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Post by Druce on Jul 21, 2015 8:40:50 GMT -6
I think as 20s pointed out on shout yesterday, the biggest fear people have looking at these grades is that Russell will end up as a middle of the road big, since he's going to take away shots from more efficient perimeter players no matter what but doesn't have the kind of grade set that one expects of a big who will be a dominant scorer (which he shouldn't). However, my biggest issue with it, which has been addressed but I still don't think fully addressed, is that his starting defensive grade was B+ with a C potential. Bill Russell was considered one of the greatest defenders ever in college and led his team to two NCAA championships. If he is a C potential, which means some growth but mostly a finished product, he should have no lower than an A defensive grade to start. Mainly, the bitching about Russell is because he is widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, and Odin went very conservative with the grades. Most of the time, that wouldn't be a huge issue, but there are certain players who are going to draw a lot of attention and scrutiny. Bill Russell is one of them.
Where's all the uprising for this one? whats wrong with hakeem? |
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jul 21, 2015 8:43:17 GMT -6
I think as 20s pointed out on shout yesterday, the biggest fear people have looking at these grades is that Russell will end up as a middle of the road big, since he's going to take away shots from more efficient perimeter players no matter what but doesn't have the kind of grade set that one expects of a big who will be a dominant scorer (which he shouldn't). However, my biggest issue with it, which has been addressed but I still don't think fully addressed, is that his starting defensive grade was B+ with a C potential. Bill Russell was considered one of the greatest defenders ever in college and led his team to two NCAA championships. If he is a C potential, which means some growth but mostly a finished product, he should have no lower than an A defensive grade to start. Mainly, the bitching about Russell is because he is widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, and Odin went very conservative with the grades. Most of the time, that wouldn't be a huge issue, but there are certain players who are going to draw a lot of attention and scrutiny. Bill Russell is one of them.
Where's all the uprising for this one? A-potential means a whole lot more growth is expected. Again, I'm not arguing that you can't make Russell good. Scouted potential doesn't actually mean anything when you're building the player. But when Odin made this profile and gave Russell C potential, that meant that he didn't expect him to grow much better than he is. And I don't think his grades are fair in that sense. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 8:49:22 GMT -6
TMBSL Uprising: Bill Russell
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 8:49:22 GMT -6
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 8:50:25 GMT -6
A-potential means a whole lot more growth is expected. Again, I'm not arguing that you can't make Russell good. Scouted potential doesn't actually mean anything when you're building the player. But when Odin made this profile and gave Russell C potential, that meant that he didn't expect him to grow much better than he is. And I don't think his grades are fair in that sense. hakeem was pretty polished coming out of houston |
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jul 21, 2015 8:57:15 GMT -6
Sounds more like you have an issue with Hakeem's profile
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 8:59:54 GMT -6
Sounds more like you have an issue with Hakeem's profile |
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jul 21, 2015 9:03:49 GMT -6
Bill Russell's profile should give him the chance to be great. This profile makes me think his ceiling is David Robinson, who is really good, but definitely not great
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 9:06:01 GMT -6
Bill Russell's profile should give him the chance to be great. This profile makes me think his ceiling is David Robinson, who is really good, but definitely not great I made this version of rookie Bill, that has the same grades as this profile. I am going to sim a few times out to 7 seasons and I'll post pictures of his grades after 7 sim season. Beginning Grades - B D+ D+ A- A- C  sim 1 - A- C- C- A+ A- C after 7 seasons Sim 2 - A- C- D A+ A B Sim 3 A- C D+ A A- C |
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Post by dilworth on Jul 21, 2015 9:08:11 GMT -6
I think Bill Russell should be David Robinson esque tbh. The problem I have with Heeb's simulations is that he assumed you're giving him 85 (A) potential.
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jul 21, 2015 9:08:42 GMT -6
Whatever. If you're satisfied with it then I'm just wasting my time anyway
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 9:12:36 GMT -6
Whatever. If you're satisfied with it then I'm just wasting my time anyway  |
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Post by Heebs on Jul 21, 2015 9:15:23 GMT -6
I think Bill Russell should be David Robinson esque tbh. The problem I have with Heeb's simulations is that he assumed you're giving him 85 (A) potential. Soup has said in the past most prospects get A true potential (ie, 80+). My guess is Bill gets 82 or 85. |
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Post by ANK1990 on Jul 21, 2015 9:17:30 GMT -6
Bill Russell's profile should give him the chance to be great. This profile makes me think his ceiling is David Robinson, who is really good, but definitely not great I made this version of rookie Bill, that has the same grades as this profile. I am going to sim a few times out to 7 seasons and I'll post pictures of his grades after 7 sim season. Beginning Grades - B D+ D+ A- A- C sim 1 - A- C- C- A+ A- C after 7 seasons Sim 2 - A- C- D A+ A B Sim 3 A- C D+ A A- C Those results kind of prove the point. Russell is going to take a shit load of shots with those grades, which isn't accurate. |
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 9:20:07 GMT -6
Those results kind of prove the point. Russell is going to take a shit load of shots with those grades, which isn't accurate. yeah, no one said he would be made exactly how Heebs made him |
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Post by Face-in on Jul 21, 2015 9:22:20 GMT -6
However, my biggest issue with it, which has been addressed but I still don't think fully addressed, is that his starting defensive grade was B+ with a C potential. Bill Russell was considered one of the greatest defenders ever in college and led his team to two NCAA championships. If he is a C potential, which means some growth but mostly a finished product, he should have no lower than an A defensive grade to start. Mouhamed Sene got a better starting defensive grade (C D C- A- B A). |
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Post by Citizen Cane on Jul 21, 2015 9:34:15 GMT -6
hasn't been this much controversy since I was DM
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Post by Druce on Jul 21, 2015 9:42:14 GMT -6
i get why pete and dil are mad, but i think it'll be ok. emeka was a C potential guy, and he turned out really really good.
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 9:45:08 GMT -6
Those results kind of prove the point. Russell is going to take a shit load of shots with those grades, which isn't accurate. from 1958-1963 he was top 20 in field goals attempted every season |
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Post by ANK1990 on Jul 21, 2015 9:53:18 GMT -6
Those results kind of prove the point. Russell is going to take a shit load of shots with those grades, which isn't accurate. from 1958-1963 he was top 20 in field goals attempted every season We already had this discussion. That's a function of playing 3000 minutes, not being shot-happy. If you adjust for minutes played, he was always near the bottom for his team in terms of shot attempts. |
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jul 21, 2015 9:54:58 GMT -6
Those results kind of prove the point. Russell is going to take a shit load of shots with those grades, which isn't accurate. from 1958-1963 he was top 20 in field goals attempted every season He got more minutes than just about everybody in that stretch. If you look at per 36 stats he shot less than most of his peers. www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1959_per_minute.html |
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Post by dilworth on Jul 21, 2015 9:56:13 GMT -6
I'm not mad about it anymore. Initially I was mad due to the B+ defense with C potential. But when it changed to A- and I remembered that this is a simulated league I realized that Bill Russell's grades are really not important.
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jul 21, 2015 9:57:26 GMT -6
In FGA per 36 minutes, he ranked #75, 81, 80, 92, and 93 over that stretch. In a league of between 90 and 120 players
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jul 21, 2015 12:05:45 GMT -6
I'm not mad about it anymore. Initially I was mad due to the B+ defense with C potential. But when it changed to A- and I remembered that this is a simulated league I realized that Bill Russell's grades are really not important. I just made a prospect that looks awesome and that I'm going to take at number 1. fixed for accuracy |
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