Post by Druce on Aug 12, 2015 14:22:24 GMT -6
The other day we were talking about how trustworthy people were in the league, so I figured I'd pose some questions to a few GMs to see what there thoughts were. For most of it I wasn't surprised, but for some answers I was. Enjoy.
1. How much does integrity play a part in your interpretation of trade negotiations?
Fason: It plays a big part for me. If somebody lies to me or if I see them do something shady in another deal with someone else it makes me hesitant to work with them.
Heebs: It is material. I am not Tyler. I will not refuse to trade with someone out of principal. That said, I will give deference to an offer from a GM who I believe has integrity and very little to a GM who I think has poor character.
Odin: None whatsoever. I don't really care about who I'm getting my players from. There are GMs I prefer to work with and those I prefer to avoid but when it comes down to it I'm simply trying to get the players/picks I want.
Druce: As long as I like the deal, at the end of the day I don’t really care who it’s with. I’m definitely more willing to work with those that I’ve had a positive experience with in the past, but every team has or will have desirable players so refusing to trade with someone isn’t the smartest idea.
2. Have you ever scumbagged another GM? If so, how?
Fason: No, at least not that I am aware of.
Heebs: I was part of a scumbag I guess. When I was in my third-ish season as a GM I wanted to draft Acie Law IV and send him overseas. I gave 20s an offer after he’d accepted (and posted) a deal with bankz. My offer was pretty good. 20s told me he wasn’t going to scumbag bankz, so I told bankz I was trying to get the pick. Bankz started negotiating with me for the pick before accepting 20s posted deal. I told 20s about the negotiations in shout, 20s deleted the post, and accepted my offer.
Odin: Absolutely. The Kobe/RW situation (why did I even make that trade?) is probably the best example. I mostly just look for absurd loopholes that will be closed after I finish taking advantage of them. I may or may not have had a trade posted to use as leverage to complete the deal I actually wanted to do then claimed there was a "miscommunication" between myself and the other party in the trade that was used as leverage.
Druce: Not to my knowledge. There are certainly been trades that I second guessed before they were posted, but that’s just not my style.
3. Have you ever been scumbagged by another GM? If so, whats the story?
Fason: No, everyone has been good to me so far.
Heebs: No.
Odin: No, not really, or at least I can't remember an instance in which I was. I've been trade raped, but that's not the same thing.
Druce: No not directly. I’ve been refused help in a salary cap situation, and for that there is one GM who I wouldn’t ever help get out of a similar situation.
4. Do you think the league has heroes and villans? Who?
Fason: I don’t think the league has any heroes. We have plenty of GMs that almost everyone likes but they aren’t heroes. I think almost everyone likes 20s, Pete, Kn, Dirt, Trofie, Bruns and Buster.
We have villians but it’s not based on integrity. Our vilians are the GMS of the great teams that we want to see fall so we have a better chance to win. Ian was probably the only true villain we've ever had in the league and that was because he could be so annoying.
GBG right now is worse than Darth Vader, Hannibal Lector, Nurse Ratched and Jaws.
Heebs: Absolutely.
Some people are just more charismatic than others.
I don’t know if it is much more than that.
Heroes include 20s, Bruns, KN, Pete, Buster, and Yawn.
Villains include RW, Bankz, Ank, and 2Poor.
Odin: Without a doubt, and it just works better that way.
Heroes: bruns, dump, 20s, soup, pete, druce, dil
Villains: canes, dump, ank, herbs, eric, bankz, rw, 2poor
Druce: I agree with Odin and Heebs, and I think a lot of it has to do with different personality types. I think some guys play politician and don’t expose themselves to any ill will. One thing I really like about Bankz is that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks, he voices his opinion regardless.
5. Does a GMs reputation skew your perception going in to trade negotiations?
Fason: Yes, I’m always leery when I see an offer come in from a few different GMs. I immediately wonder if they have a side deal in the works which would make our deal worse for me. I always worry about this when draft picks are involved. That could also be considered good GM work but I try not to do it because I don’t want to make people hesitant to deal with me in the future.
Heebs: Yes. Prime examples are Canes and Bankz.
Both of them suck to talk trades with and I no longer send either of them trade or counter offers. If they want to send me offers, I will read them and respond with yes or no, but it is an absolute waste of my time to negotiate with either of them.
Odin: Nope. As I said before I don't really from where I get my players.
Druce: Whenever dirt offers a clippers pick, I pretty much think it’ll end up being shit, same with Trofie. A lot of trades I’ve done have been agreed to within like 2 PMs, I can appreciate when a GM can pull the trigger on an offer they like, and I think there are definitely some guys who hem and haw over every decision they are faced with.
6. Does integrity get rewarded in the league?
Fason: I don’t think so. Only thing I can think of is when a team is over the hard cap and somebody helps them get under for free or some dump bucks.
Heebs: To a small extent, maybe. GMs are still looking out for #1, so I don’t think there is a lot of value they are willing to give up for the “good guy.” I do think GMs will choose to do favors (help with salary cap, be reasonable on selling unwanted picks, etc) for GMs they like or they feel deserve it. But they aren’t giving up real value just because they think someone has integrity.
On the other hand, I think people who are perceived to lack integrity (true or not) are punished in various ways – generally by being hesitant (or outright refusing) to deal with them.
Odin: In small ways but nothing significant. People are much more likely to help out someone they like. HC troubles, player dumps, etc.
Druce: Outside of salary help I don’t really think so.
7. Do you have a different perception of someone than the league as a whole? Why?
Fason: I guess Bankz, I think there are some people who don’t like or trust him. I thought he was an asshole and didn’t like him very much when I first started but have grown to really like him partly due to how he handled things while we were tanking against each other. His DCs were always legal and he never worried about what I was doing.
Heebs: I like Bankz. I feel like most GMs like him, but there are a few that don’t. He’s a little impulsive and hot-headed, but I feel like his heart is genuinely good.
I don’t think GBG peacocks. I just think his team is so good it’s hard for him to talk about sim league without gloating.
I don’t think Ank is that good of a GM. His team is old and retiring soon and I’ve got his 3025 first. Trade block incoming.
Odin: I don't see the fascination in ved. I don't dislike the dude but everyone seems to love him. I don't really dislike jw, ocho, or duc but they seem like the same person. I have a pretty intense lack of respect and hatred for one GM but I'll never tell who. It's better it isn't known.
Druce: I think Bankz is generally well liked by the league unless he’s taking just a horrible stance on something, then people get annoyed with him quickly. Like Heebs said about GBG’s peacocking, there isn’t much for him to say that doesn’t sound like bragging, but it still fuckin annoys me sometimes. GBG is a good guy though so it’s nothing against him.
8. Are there certain GMs you don’t like to see have success? Are there GMs aside from yourself whose success you enjoy?
Fason: No, I don’t root against GMs for personal reasons or because I think they are shady. I only root against teams who I feel haven't earned their success through good GM work. There have been 3 teams that I’ve rooted against:
1.Tyler’s teams because I felt Odin was doing a lot of the work and helping him out with his contract offers/salary cap.
2.MJ’s teams that had Magic Johnson that first go around because he was gifted that team.
3.RV’s team from the last three or four seasons because of autodrafting and free agent luck.
I root for GMs who have done a good job building their teams and I like to see a new champ each season. I guess right now I’m rooting for guys like KN, Ank, Bruns, Trofie, Heebs and Buster to have championship success because they’ve all had some tough luck with really good teams. I’m also rooting for Eric now because he saved the league, whatever is his objective. If it’s winning a title or getting that 8th seed, good luck Eric.
Heebs: I enjoy (and have been trying to promote) Bankz’s success for 5+ sim seasons.
I like to see unconventional champions. I enjoyed the Raptors and Clippers titles. I was a big fan of the 76ers championship, which was overdue.
I would love to see the Thunder fall apart. I think a number of teams are unwilling to go all in because the Thunder have the title locked up for the next 5 seasons if they resign Harrison and Shareef.
Right now I am a big fan of the Suns having very little success. I think Ankly is a pretty good GM, notwithstanding my prior dispersions, but I think he’s got limited ammo to retool with his stars being so old.
Odin: The success of any inactive GM is pretty irritating. And I love seeing success from those who haven't had much but were always very active.
Druce: Yes and yes. It gets pretty tired to see the same team winning over and over. It’s mostly irritating when people just luck into titles/a contending team. I root for guys who are good dudes that are active.
9. Who gets a bad rap that shouldn’t? Who gets a good rap that shouldn’t?
Fason: RW isn’t that bad and I do trust him when we are negotiating. In the Allen/Pettit deal I had with Duc, RW was the one who took on the cap hit to help the deal and he did for only dump bucks. He didn't have to do that since he also sent an offer for Ray Allen.
Dil is one you have to worry with when talking trades. I don't trust people that good looking.
Heebs: RW’s bad rap is unwarranted in my opinion. He’s always responsive to my trade offers and, although I disagree with how he values his players, he is always clear on who he likes and doesn’t like.
I feel like people stood up for Odin/2Poor in the attempted RW scumbag, so I’ll throw them out as GMs that deserve a worse rap.
I generally like Ian, but good lord was he annoying to negotiate with. In full disclosure, he made a really good offer for Niang when Niang was still on his rookie contract. But then he incessantly pestered me for days even though I told him I wouldn’t make a decision until I’d had time to receive other offers.
Odin: I'd say ank but he's obviously rebelling intentionally so it isn't him. Probably dump. For the most part he's been much more logical and in control of his emotions in 4.0 and he's been absurdly good at running the casino. Tanks don't always go as planned, the GM has very little control over that because RNG will RNG.
Druce: RW isn’t annoying until after you’ve taken someone else’s offer, then his offer was always better no matter what evidence against that there is. I think for the most part everyone in the league knows everyone else so well at this point that reputations are pretty true. Obviously people can change and a lot of us have over the 4 years we’ve been doing this, but the more things change, the more they stay the same. I do still kinda feel like ocho and duc are the same person, especially when debating something with them. I think I like Canes more than a lot of the league. He does dumb shit some times, but I don’t find him to be annoying or untrustworthy.
10.Rank GMs from most trusted to least.
Fason:
Top 5
1a.20s-GM I trust the most with trade offers or any kind of advice. Him not taking players he knew Odin was going to beast showed a lot of integrity
1b.Kn-Great guy, thanks for the advice with Conley's deal
3.Eric-I'd trust him to handle the file while Gming
4.Dump-Shown he is trustworthy with how he has handled the team banks
5.Trofie-always honest and straight up with me while negotiating
Bottom 5
5.2Poor-Didn't like his participation in the Kobe incident
4.Ank-Always looking to get around/stretch the rules and commit trade rape
3.JHB-That trade he had with Tobias during the creation draft was the second shadiest thing we've had go down in 4.0
2.Odin-That Kobe thing with RW was really messed up
1.Bankz-Constant troublemaker
Heebs:
Most Trusted
1. 20s
2. JW
3. Buster
4. Dump
5. Yawn
Least Trusted
5. Bruns
4. Odin
3. Ankly
2. 2Poor
1. Canes
Odin: I don't really trust or distrust anyone. As commish I always talked to soup when I needed advice or a task completed. Now that I'm a GM again I don't really ask for too many opinions and if I do I ask trofie. So, I guess I'd say 1. Trofie, 2. Soup, 3-30. everyone else
Druce:
Most Trusted:
1. 20s just an overall good guy, is logical and not self absorbed
2. Heebs probably the person I talk with most about the league
3. Dil we’re on the same wavelength most of the time
4. RV I kinda seem him as an internet little brother almost, we don’t talk that much but I don’t think he’d lie to me and I trust him.
5. Trofie I’d consider him one of my closer friends in the league, he’s a straight shooter
Least Trusted:
1. Odin the kobe thing was shitty, and probably the shadiest thing to happen in the league
2. JHB the shit that was pulled with Tobias was dumb and shady as hell
3. Ank I feel like he’s always got ulterior motives
4. Dump not in the casino sense, I think he does a great job of that, but in the sense that I could see him doing some weird or questionable stuff in general
5. Bankz I’m torn on Bankz, I feel like I can trust him, but just don’t totally know. He could be a good con man.
1. How much does integrity play a part in your interpretation of trade negotiations?
Fason: It plays a big part for me. If somebody lies to me or if I see them do something shady in another deal with someone else it makes me hesitant to work with them.
Heebs: It is material. I am not Tyler. I will not refuse to trade with someone out of principal. That said, I will give deference to an offer from a GM who I believe has integrity and very little to a GM who I think has poor character.
Odin: None whatsoever. I don't really care about who I'm getting my players from. There are GMs I prefer to work with and those I prefer to avoid but when it comes down to it I'm simply trying to get the players/picks I want.
Druce: As long as I like the deal, at the end of the day I don’t really care who it’s with. I’m definitely more willing to work with those that I’ve had a positive experience with in the past, but every team has or will have desirable players so refusing to trade with someone isn’t the smartest idea.
2. Have you ever scumbagged another GM? If so, how?
Fason: No, at least not that I am aware of.
Heebs: I was part of a scumbag I guess. When I was in my third-ish season as a GM I wanted to draft Acie Law IV and send him overseas. I gave 20s an offer after he’d accepted (and posted) a deal with bankz. My offer was pretty good. 20s told me he wasn’t going to scumbag bankz, so I told bankz I was trying to get the pick. Bankz started negotiating with me for the pick before accepting 20s posted deal. I told 20s about the negotiations in shout, 20s deleted the post, and accepted my offer.
Odin: Absolutely. The Kobe/RW situation (why did I even make that trade?) is probably the best example. I mostly just look for absurd loopholes that will be closed after I finish taking advantage of them. I may or may not have had a trade posted to use as leverage to complete the deal I actually wanted to do then claimed there was a "miscommunication" between myself and the other party in the trade that was used as leverage.
Druce: Not to my knowledge. There are certainly been trades that I second guessed before they were posted, but that’s just not my style.
3. Have you ever been scumbagged by another GM? If so, whats the story?
Fason: No, everyone has been good to me so far.
Heebs: No.
Odin: No, not really, or at least I can't remember an instance in which I was. I've been trade raped, but that's not the same thing.
Druce: No not directly. I’ve been refused help in a salary cap situation, and for that there is one GM who I wouldn’t ever help get out of a similar situation.
4. Do you think the league has heroes and villans? Who?
Fason: I don’t think the league has any heroes. We have plenty of GMs that almost everyone likes but they aren’t heroes. I think almost everyone likes 20s, Pete, Kn, Dirt, Trofie, Bruns and Buster.
We have villians but it’s not based on integrity. Our vilians are the GMS of the great teams that we want to see fall so we have a better chance to win. Ian was probably the only true villain we've ever had in the league and that was because he could be so annoying.
GBG right now is worse than Darth Vader, Hannibal Lector, Nurse Ratched and Jaws.
Heebs: Absolutely.
Some people are just more charismatic than others.
I don’t know if it is much more than that.
Heroes include 20s, Bruns, KN, Pete, Buster, and Yawn.
Villains include RW, Bankz, Ank, and 2Poor.
Odin: Without a doubt, and it just works better that way.
Heroes: bruns, dump, 20s, soup, pete, druce, dil
Villains: canes, dump, ank, herbs, eric, bankz, rw, 2poor
Druce: I agree with Odin and Heebs, and I think a lot of it has to do with different personality types. I think some guys play politician and don’t expose themselves to any ill will. One thing I really like about Bankz is that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks, he voices his opinion regardless.
5. Does a GMs reputation skew your perception going in to trade negotiations?
Fason: Yes, I’m always leery when I see an offer come in from a few different GMs. I immediately wonder if they have a side deal in the works which would make our deal worse for me. I always worry about this when draft picks are involved. That could also be considered good GM work but I try not to do it because I don’t want to make people hesitant to deal with me in the future.
Heebs: Yes. Prime examples are Canes and Bankz.
Both of them suck to talk trades with and I no longer send either of them trade or counter offers. If they want to send me offers, I will read them and respond with yes or no, but it is an absolute waste of my time to negotiate with either of them.
Odin: Nope. As I said before I don't really from where I get my players.
Druce: Whenever dirt offers a clippers pick, I pretty much think it’ll end up being shit, same with Trofie. A lot of trades I’ve done have been agreed to within like 2 PMs, I can appreciate when a GM can pull the trigger on an offer they like, and I think there are definitely some guys who hem and haw over every decision they are faced with.
6. Does integrity get rewarded in the league?
Fason: I don’t think so. Only thing I can think of is when a team is over the hard cap and somebody helps them get under for free or some dump bucks.
Heebs: To a small extent, maybe. GMs are still looking out for #1, so I don’t think there is a lot of value they are willing to give up for the “good guy.” I do think GMs will choose to do favors (help with salary cap, be reasonable on selling unwanted picks, etc) for GMs they like or they feel deserve it. But they aren’t giving up real value just because they think someone has integrity.
On the other hand, I think people who are perceived to lack integrity (true or not) are punished in various ways – generally by being hesitant (or outright refusing) to deal with them.
Odin: In small ways but nothing significant. People are much more likely to help out someone they like. HC troubles, player dumps, etc.
Druce: Outside of salary help I don’t really think so.
7. Do you have a different perception of someone than the league as a whole? Why?
Fason: I guess Bankz, I think there are some people who don’t like or trust him. I thought he was an asshole and didn’t like him very much when I first started but have grown to really like him partly due to how he handled things while we were tanking against each other. His DCs were always legal and he never worried about what I was doing.
Heebs: I like Bankz. I feel like most GMs like him, but there are a few that don’t. He’s a little impulsive and hot-headed, but I feel like his heart is genuinely good.
I don’t think GBG peacocks. I just think his team is so good it’s hard for him to talk about sim league without gloating.
I don’t think Ank is that good of a GM. His team is old and retiring soon and I’ve got his 3025 first. Trade block incoming.
Odin: I don't see the fascination in ved. I don't dislike the dude but everyone seems to love him. I don't really dislike jw, ocho, or duc but they seem like the same person. I have a pretty intense lack of respect and hatred for one GM but I'll never tell who. It's better it isn't known.
Druce: I think Bankz is generally well liked by the league unless he’s taking just a horrible stance on something, then people get annoyed with him quickly. Like Heebs said about GBG’s peacocking, there isn’t much for him to say that doesn’t sound like bragging, but it still fuckin annoys me sometimes. GBG is a good guy though so it’s nothing against him.
8. Are there certain GMs you don’t like to see have success? Are there GMs aside from yourself whose success you enjoy?
Fason: No, I don’t root against GMs for personal reasons or because I think they are shady. I only root against teams who I feel haven't earned their success through good GM work. There have been 3 teams that I’ve rooted against:
1.Tyler’s teams because I felt Odin was doing a lot of the work and helping him out with his contract offers/salary cap.
2.MJ’s teams that had Magic Johnson that first go around because he was gifted that team.
3.RV’s team from the last three or four seasons because of autodrafting and free agent luck.
I root for GMs who have done a good job building their teams and I like to see a new champ each season. I guess right now I’m rooting for guys like KN, Ank, Bruns, Trofie, Heebs and Buster to have championship success because they’ve all had some tough luck with really good teams. I’m also rooting for Eric now because he saved the league, whatever is his objective. If it’s winning a title or getting that 8th seed, good luck Eric.
Heebs: I enjoy (and have been trying to promote) Bankz’s success for 5+ sim seasons.
I like to see unconventional champions. I enjoyed the Raptors and Clippers titles. I was a big fan of the 76ers championship, which was overdue.
I would love to see the Thunder fall apart. I think a number of teams are unwilling to go all in because the Thunder have the title locked up for the next 5 seasons if they resign Harrison and Shareef.
Right now I am a big fan of the Suns having very little success. I think Ankly is a pretty good GM, notwithstanding my prior dispersions, but I think he’s got limited ammo to retool with his stars being so old.
Odin: The success of any inactive GM is pretty irritating. And I love seeing success from those who haven't had much but were always very active.
Druce: Yes and yes. It gets pretty tired to see the same team winning over and over. It’s mostly irritating when people just luck into titles/a contending team. I root for guys who are good dudes that are active.
9. Who gets a bad rap that shouldn’t? Who gets a good rap that shouldn’t?
Fason: RW isn’t that bad and I do trust him when we are negotiating. In the Allen/Pettit deal I had with Duc, RW was the one who took on the cap hit to help the deal and he did for only dump bucks. He didn't have to do that since he also sent an offer for Ray Allen.
Dil is one you have to worry with when talking trades. I don't trust people that good looking.
Heebs: RW’s bad rap is unwarranted in my opinion. He’s always responsive to my trade offers and, although I disagree with how he values his players, he is always clear on who he likes and doesn’t like.
I feel like people stood up for Odin/2Poor in the attempted RW scumbag, so I’ll throw them out as GMs that deserve a worse rap.
I generally like Ian, but good lord was he annoying to negotiate with. In full disclosure, he made a really good offer for Niang when Niang was still on his rookie contract. But then he incessantly pestered me for days even though I told him I wouldn’t make a decision until I’d had time to receive other offers.
Odin: I'd say ank but he's obviously rebelling intentionally so it isn't him. Probably dump. For the most part he's been much more logical and in control of his emotions in 4.0 and he's been absurdly good at running the casino. Tanks don't always go as planned, the GM has very little control over that because RNG will RNG.
Druce: RW isn’t annoying until after you’ve taken someone else’s offer, then his offer was always better no matter what evidence against that there is. I think for the most part everyone in the league knows everyone else so well at this point that reputations are pretty true. Obviously people can change and a lot of us have over the 4 years we’ve been doing this, but the more things change, the more they stay the same. I do still kinda feel like ocho and duc are the same person, especially when debating something with them. I think I like Canes more than a lot of the league. He does dumb shit some times, but I don’t find him to be annoying or untrustworthy.
10.Rank GMs from most trusted to least.
Fason:
Top 5
1a.20s-GM I trust the most with trade offers or any kind of advice. Him not taking players he knew Odin was going to beast showed a lot of integrity
1b.Kn-Great guy, thanks for the advice with Conley's deal
3.Eric-I'd trust him to handle the file while Gming
4.Dump-Shown he is trustworthy with how he has handled the team banks
5.Trofie-always honest and straight up with me while negotiating
Bottom 5
5.2Poor-Didn't like his participation in the Kobe incident
4.Ank-Always looking to get around/stretch the rules and commit trade rape
3.JHB-That trade he had with Tobias during the creation draft was the second shadiest thing we've had go down in 4.0
2.Odin-That Kobe thing with RW was really messed up
1.Bankz-Constant troublemaker
Heebs:
Most Trusted
1. 20s
2. JW
3. Buster
4. Dump
5. Yawn
Least Trusted
5. Bruns
4. Odin
3. Ankly
2. 2Poor
1. Canes
Odin: I don't really trust or distrust anyone. As commish I always talked to soup when I needed advice or a task completed. Now that I'm a GM again I don't really ask for too many opinions and if I do I ask trofie. So, I guess I'd say 1. Trofie, 2. Soup, 3-30. everyone else
Druce:
Most Trusted:
1. 20s just an overall good guy, is logical and not self absorbed
2. Heebs probably the person I talk with most about the league
3. Dil we’re on the same wavelength most of the time
4. RV I kinda seem him as an internet little brother almost, we don’t talk that much but I don’t think he’d lie to me and I trust him.
5. Trofie I’d consider him one of my closer friends in the league, he’s a straight shooter
Least Trusted:
1. Odin the kobe thing was shitty, and probably the shadiest thing to happen in the league
2. JHB the shit that was pulled with Tobias was dumb and shady as hell
3. Ank I feel like he’s always got ulterior motives
4. Dump not in the casino sense, I think he does a great job of that, but in the sense that I could see him doing some weird or questionable stuff in general
5. Bankz I’m torn on Bankz, I feel like I can trust him, but just don’t totally know. He could be a good con man.
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