Mark Aguirre (2,086 views)

[20s Navidad]

Mark Aguirre
Position: SF
Age: 22
Height: 6'6
Weight: 232
School: DePaul
B C+ C B- C+ A

Aguirre is the rare type of talent that has no major weakness on the basketball court.  He is a high scoring wing who can finish on the inside, but he a decent jump shooter and isn't afraid to get others involved on the offensive end.  He was a very efficient scorer at DePaul despite his high usage rate and often being the focus of opposing defenses.  Scouts feel his is a safe pick in that his floor is pretty high.  The bust factor seems low but the potential is there for Aguirre to be a star.

[Deleted]

I mean he's decent

[Druce]

i like this player

[Lazy Pete]

Adrian Dantley is rolling over in his grave

[Bankz]

Chicago guys are ok in my book

[Druce]

he's so chi that we thought he was bashful

[Mad King]

I will draft the White guy behind him in the profile pick

[20s Navidad]

White Michael Carter-Williams

[Lazy Pete]

That superman hair curl game is pro ready

[RWisoursavior]

I always get shit for asking people to be changed but here I go again.

He averaged 24.5/8/3.3 on 56% shooting on his entire career. Blake puts up 23 PPG one season and gets A- inside, I know some of that was because of jumping but a guy who put up 27 PPG in a season and went #1 overall shouldn't have B C+ scoring grades.

[IanBoyd]

B C+ scoring is basically the prototype of a future A- A scoring wing if given a favorable attribute distribution.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

[RWisoursavior]

May 20, 2015 9:59:14 GMT -6 IanBoyd said:

B C+ scoring is basically the prototype of a future A- A scoring wing if given a favorable attribute distribution.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

That's cool. The grades aren't based on what he will be in the future they're based on college production/potential and Aguirre deserves more than B C+ especially considering he was the #1 overall pick. 

[Lazy Pete]

The only way to make Blake realistic was to inflate his inside grade so Soup could give him enough jumping but also keep him from sucking. My guess is, if Soup wants to make Aguirre good, he won't feel as obligated to put attribute points into jumping. Hence, why the B isn't a big deal.

Furthermore, C+ outside compared to Blake's D+ means he is a lot less of a risk to shoot like shit. It's important tradeoffs such as these that keep the horrible spectre of inflation at bay

[20s Navidad]

May 20, 2015 9:16:04 GMT -6 RWisoursavior said:

I always get shit for asking people to be changed but here I go again.

He averaged 24.5/8/3.3 on 56% shooting on his entire career. Blake puts up 23 PPG one season and gets A- inside, I know some of that was because of jumping but a guy who put up 27 PPG in a season and went #1 overall shouldn't have B C+ scoring grades.

I encourage you to view the college stats of all draft prospects throughout a number of years. It helps gain some perspective on what college numbers mean compared to numbers in our sim. The numbers you quote for Aguirre are good, but nothing crazy that isn't matched by multiple players every year.  There is much more to determining a player's grade set and draft stock that simply what their stats were in college. I generally look at a player's college stats to get a feel for what type of a player they were more than for a direct grade translation. Plenty of other players have matched the raw numbers of Blake Griffin when it comes to points and shooting percentage and they were not given identical grades, that is not the sole factor. I have Aguirre a very good grade set for a wing based on his college numbers, his draft spot, and how he performed in the NBA. 

Also, I have been told that I am able to base my draft grades on whatever criteria I want so I find it a little presumptuous of you to tell someone else what the grades are based on. Finally, I am likely going to be stepping down from draft master duties sometime in the near future after my daughter is born so maybe you will have the opportunity to create your own grades as my replacement. 

[IanBoyd]

Jimmer needs C+ A++ scoring grades is what rw is saying

[2poor]

May 20, 2015 11:47:16 GMT -6 20s Navidad said:

May 20, 2015 9:16:04 GMT -6 RWisoursavior said:

I always get shit for asking people to be changed but here I go again.

He averaged 24.5/8/3.3 on 56% shooting on his entire career. Blake puts up 23 PPG one season and gets A- inside, I know some of that was because of jumping but a guy who put up 27 PPG in a season and went #1 overall shouldn't have B C+ scoring grades.

I encourage you to view the college stats of all draft prospects throughout a number of years. It helps gain some perspective on what college numbers mean compared to numbers in our sim. The numbers you quote for Aguirre are good, but nothing crazy that isn't matched by multiple players every year.  There is much more to determining a player's grade set and draft stock that simply what their stats were in college. I generally look at a player's college stats to get a feel for what type of a player they were more than for a direct grade translation. Plenty of other players have matched the raw numbers of Blake Griffin when it comes to points and shooting percentage and they were not given identical grades, that is not the sole factor. I have Aguirre a very good grade set for a wing based on his college numbers, his draft spot, and how he performed in the NBA. 

Also, I have been told that I am able to base my draft grades on whatever criteria I want so I find it a little presumptuous of you to tell someone else what the grades are based on. Finally, I am likely going to be stepping down from draft master duties sometime in the near future after my daughter is born so maybe you will have the opportunity to create your own grades as my replacement. 

scorched earth

[RWisoursavior]

May 20, 2015 11:47:16 GMT -6 20s Navidad said:

May 20, 2015 9:16:04 GMT -6 RWisoursavior said:

I always get shit for asking people to be changed but here I go again.

He averaged 24.5/8/3.3 on 56% shooting on his entire career. Blake puts up 23 PPG one season and gets A- inside, I know some of that was because of jumping but a guy who put up 27 PPG in a season and went #1 overall shouldn't have B C+ scoring grades.

I encourage you to view the college stats of all draft prospects throughout a number of years. It helps gain some perspective on what college numbers mean compared to numbers in our sim. The numbers you quote for Aguirre are good, but nothing crazy that isn't matched by multiple players every year.  There is much more to determining a player's grade set and draft stock that simply what their stats were in college. I generally look at a player's college stats to get a feel for what type of a player they were more than for a direct grade translation. Plenty of other players have matched the raw numbers of Blake Griffin when it comes to points and shooting percentage and they were not given identical grades, that is not the sole factor. I have Aguirre a very good grade set for a wing based on his college numbers, his draft spot, and how he performed in the NBA. 

Also, I have been told that I am able to base my draft grades on whatever criteria I want so I find it a little presumptuous of you to tell someone else what the grades are based on. Finally, I am likely going to be stepping down from draft master duties sometime in the near future after my daughter is born so maybe you will have the opportunity to create your own grades as my replacement. 

Yes, you have Aguirre for a good grade set, but it should be great. 

I went back a few years with your suggestion and these are some of the grade sets with college numbers

He shouldn't have the same scoring grades as some of the following Gerald Henderson (B C+, 12PPG 45 FG%), Wes Mathews (B C+, 13 PPG 44.4 FG%), Chris Childs (B C+, 13.6 PPG 44 FG%), Tim Hardaway (B C+, 14 PPG 42.5 FG%), Danny Ferry (B C+ 15 PPG 48 FG%, did have 22 PPG senior year), Desmond Mason (B+ B- 13 PPG, 48.6 FG%), Stanley Johnson (B C+ 14 PPG 44.6 FG%), Delon Wright (B C+ 15 PPG, 53.5 FG%)

None of those guys had near the production and few had the potential. 

I'm not trying to say you're a shitty draft master or have done a poor job, I in fact think the opposite. I'm just saying this particular player should have better scoring grades.

When a guy goes #1 overall and averaged 24.5 PPG on 54.6 FG% he should have better scoring grades than B C+ scoring grades. 

[Lazy Pete]

This guy just doesn't get it

[Deleted]

I mean, he provided solid evidence for his argument. We may not agree with his argument but it is sound.

[Druce]

May 20, 2015 11:47:16 GMT -6 20s Navidad said:

May 20, 2015 9:16:04 GMT -6 RWisoursavior said:

I always get shit for asking people to be changed but here I go again.

He averaged 24.5/8/3.3 on 56% shooting on his entire career. Blake puts up 23 PPG one season and gets A- inside, I know some of that was because of jumping but a guy who put up 27 PPG in a season and went #1 overall shouldn't have B C+ scoring grades.

I encourage you to view the college stats of all draft prospects throughout a number of years. It helps gain some perspective on what college numbers mean compared to numbers in our sim. The numbers you quote for Aguirre are good, but nothing crazy that isn't matched by multiple players every year.  There is much more to determining a player's grade set and draft stock that simply what their stats were in college. I generally look at a player's college stats to get a feel for what type of a player they were more than for a direct grade translation. Plenty of other players have matched the raw numbers of Blake Griffin when it comes to points and shooting percentage and they were not given identical grades, that is not the sole factor. I have Aguirre a very good grade set for a wing based on his college numbers, his draft spot, and how he performed in the NBA. 

Also, I have been told that I am able to base my draft grades on whatever criteria I want so I find it a little presumptuous of you to tell someone else what the grades are based on. Finally, I am likely going to be stepping down from draft master duties sometime in the near future after my daughter is born so maybe you will have the opportunity to create your own grades as my replacement. 

:gifofdwaynejohnsonclapping:

Also, if you're stepping down, I have a strong interest in returning to the post, that is if the league sees me as qualified.

[RWisoursavior]

I'm confused, I did exactly as you asked and no response.

If anything going back proved I was correct.

[20s Navidad]

May 22, 2015 9:17:02 GMT -6 RWisoursavior said:

I'm confused, I did exactly as you asked and no response.

If anything going back proved I was correct.

Yeah, I didn't want to waste more time writing up a big response. Also, it seems like you missed a big part of my post or just chose to ignore it because you still seem to think grades are a direct translation of college stats. 

[RWisoursavior]

May 22, 2015 9:21:30 GMT -6 20s Navidad said:

May 22, 2015 9:17:02 GMT -6 RWisoursavior said:

I'm confused, I did exactly as you asked and no response.

If anything going back proved I was correct.

Yeah, I didn't want to waste more time writing up a big response. Also, it seems like you missed a big part of my post or just chose to ignore it because you still seem to think grades are a direct translation of college stats. 

I think they should be a relative  correlation with college stats taking into consideration they were suppose to translate to the NBA (went #1) and they did to a certain extent. He made 3 all-star games and averaged 20/5/3 48% FG for his career and had some sick 29.5/6/4.5 on 52% FG seasons. 

I didn't address the second part of what you said because there's nothing to argue with there, but the grades should be and have always been to a certain extent up to debate and criticized because we want consistency. 

I'm sure I wouldn't care as much if I didn't have a high pick coming up and that's why I'm ultra critical but nonetheless my claim is valid. 

[2poor]

I'd just like to thank 20s for a tremendously successful tenure as DM, and wish him a lifetime of happiness in fatherhood. You the man, 20s!

[20s Navidad]

Yes, Mark Aguirre was a great player in college. Yes, he was the #1 pick. Yes, he had a successful career in the NBA. That is why I made him with grades of an elite wing prospect that will allow him to be a star in this league if that is what soup and the software want to happen.

I don't see you complaining that Larry Nance has way better grades than what his college stats would translate to in your rubric.

[RWisoursavior]

May 22, 2015 10:02:23 GMT -6 20s Navidad said:

Yes, Mark Aguirre was a great player in college. Yes, he was the #1 pick. Yes, he had a successful career in the NBA. That is why I made him with grades of an elite wing prospect that will allow him to be a star in this league if that is what soup and the software want to happen.

I don't see you complaining that Larry Nance has way better grades than what his college stats would translate to in your rubric.

I'm sure there are other examples, I've stated why I noticed in particular with Aguirre (Similar to how I made a comment about Blake and was incorrect). 

I disagree those are elite wing grades and think they are instead decent, common wing grades. With potential can he still be a star? Sure, no doubt. But imo he performed at a high enough level and had the NBA projections to warrant higher grades. Mark Aguirre shouldn't have the same scoring grades as Wes Mathews and Chris Childs and worse scoring grades than Desmond Mason. 

Once again I'd like to restate I think you've done a fine job with DM and just have a bone to pick with this player. 

[Heebs]

Elite Wing Starting Grades

MJ - B B- (+1 from Aguire)
Khalid - B- C+ (-1 from Aguire)
Marques Johnson - B C (-1 from Aguire)
Drexler - B C+ (identical to Aguire)
Bossert - C+ B+ (+1 to Aguire)
Reggie Miller - C+ B+ (+1 to Aguire)

RW, please stop whining.

[ANK1990]

Those are elite wing grades. B Inside and C+ Rebounding are great. C+ Outside is sufficient as outside isn't that hard to develop.

If you don't understand by now why elite big men prospects like Blake need inflated inside scoring grades, then I really don't know what to say.

[20s Navidad]

Also, all letter grades are not equal. Someone can be a better player than someone and not have it reflect in the letter grades. If every time a player was better than another player you had to bump their grade at least one in the displayed grades, we would end up with players with A+++++++++ as their grades.

Secondly, their reputation and projected draft spot also factor in greatly to their value. Chris Childs was a 2nd rounder who had a decent NBA career so I wanted to make him at least a somewhat interesting prospect despite his college production. I think everyone realized that Chris Childs wasn't likely to turn into much while a guy like Clyde Drexler was elite even though they had the same scoring letter grades. Everyone besides you apparently realizes there is more nuance and many factors that are going into how a player is built and how attractive they are as a prospect. It isn't as black and white as you keep trying to make it out to be.

Third, as I have matured as draft master I have learned that assigning the grades is more about giving a player a chance to succeed in this league and become the type of player they either were in real life or were expected to be in real life. Often times, this means bumping a big's inside grade or their outside grade even when their college statistics wouldn't dictate doing so just so they can have a chance at being a useful player in sim. When I first started, I was making grades directly off of stats how you are arguing now. I believe that I learned and grew from that and now consider many more factors when I am grading a prospect. Gerald Henderson was a lotto pick who didn't have amazing college numbers and has had an uninspiring career in the NBA. I gave him good enough grades to make GMs consider him as a lotto pick even though all GMs were apparently able to realize he wasn't the same level of prospect as guys like Drexler and Aguirre are.

[RWisoursavior]

May 22, 2015 10:46:51 GMT -6 Heebs said:

Elite Wing Starting Grades

MJ - B B- (+1 from Aguire)
Khalid - B- C+ (-1 from Aguire)
Marques Johnson - B C (-1 from Aguire)
Drexler - B C+ (identical to Aguire)
Bossert - C+ B+ (+1 to Aguire)
Reggie Miller - C+ B+ (+1 to Aguire)

RW, please stop whining.

MJ - college #'s 18 PPG 54% FG, Drafted #3
Khalid- 15 PPG 48% FG Drafted #12
Marques Johnson - 14.5 PPG 57 FG% Drafted #3
Clyde Drexler - 14.5 PPG 54% FG Drafted #14
Bossert
Reggie Miller - 17 PPG 55FG% Drafted #11

Mark Aguirre 24.5 PPG 54.6 FG% Drafted #1

An alternative grade set would be B+ B- scoring grades with B potential. He was polished out of college and could contribute immediately but was close to his ceiling already.