Post by eric on Nov 30, 2016 16:53:59 GMT -6
Question was posed in shout: which team's history is the best at each position?
point - Bullets, Blazers, 76ers tied with Kings
wing - Nets, 76ers, Bullets
big - 76ers, Suns, Bullets, Thunder too
kn88 and Face-in are pretty good GMs it looks like
now gimme my dump bucks
.
The history goes back to 3014, and I thought while I was doing this I'd look at the evolution of positions since that time, so I counted the listed position of every player that existed in each year except 3037, and don't even start with me about 3037, then did rolling five year averages:
Eagle eyed readers will note that these don't add up to 650. This is because many (~100) slots each year are blank due to players retiring or being erased by the software for not being on a team, and by design not enough players are added in the draft to completely fill the league.
We first of all see that someone completely destroyed the power forward position, but we also see a sudden divergence in the point/big/wing division in 3024. This is interesting because the position eligibility rule changes happened in 3017, so the grandfathered guys for the most part stuck around another seven years or so, which seems about right.
.
To determine the best at each position, I first had to determine what position each guy played in, so I averaged every player's listed position over their careers (from 3014-present). I recognize this isn't a perfect metric. Then I had to determine what was good at a given position, and found that the top quartile of performances by points, wings, and bigs were eleven, nine, and eight win shares respectively. I found all those cases where a player posted three such top quartile years for a single team. (Note that although there's no reason a priori to assume they would, the proportions between point and wing/big remain very much the same for three+ year players and one+ year players: 32 to 32.5 versus 85 to 83 where the wing/big is scaled by four.) Finally I summed those years to obtain:
I would also mention that summing across positions gives us a clear Poisson distribution, with the Bullets and 76ers being by far and away the highest two at 63 and 62. The difference between the 76ers and the third place Kings is as big as the difference between the Kings and the thirteenth place Jazz. The particular players for the three topmost:
point
Bullets - Kyrie Irving, Eric Bledsoe
Blazers - Stephen Curry, Gilbert Arenas
76ers - Mike Conley, Tyus Edney, Rowdy Eavenson
Kings - Brandon Knight, Stephon Marbury
wing
Nets - Georges Niang, Matthew Lockhart, Sam Jones, Michael Redd
76ers - Jimmy Chitwood, Dario Saric, Charles Barkley, Ben McLemore
Bullets - Jesus Shuttlesworth, George McCloud, Willie Nauls
big
76ers - Kevin McHale, David Robinson, Alvaro Teheran, Joe Smith, Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Suns - Jermaine O'Neal, Pete Holzman, Jason Collier, Brook Lopez, Shaquille O'Neal
Bullets - DeJuan Blair, Jon Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Hasheem Thabeet, Stromile Swift
Thunder - Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Elton Brand, Vlade Divac, Cliff T. Robinson
.
.
Another way of looking at this is to try and build an actual lineup, so the five best player year totals are all that counts for wing/big and three best for point guards. Because so many teams posted zeros for certain categories I will extend this beyond the three top quartile year requirement to one. The standings don't change except for in big men, where the Nets stay the Nets and are joined by the 76ers, Bobcats, and Thunder with 21, narrowly ahead of the Bullets, Suns, and Raptors with 20. Lotta bigs. Lotta big men.
And for your viewing pleasure here are the lineups:
point - Bullets, Blazers, 76ers tied with Kings
wing - Nets, 76ers, Bullets
big - 76ers, Suns, Bullets, Thunder too
kn88 and Face-in are pretty good GMs it looks like
now gimme my dump bucks
.
The history goes back to 3014, and I thought while I was doing this I'd look at the evolution of positions since that time, so I counted the listed position of every player that existed in each year except 3037, and don't even start with me about 3037, then did rolling five year averages:
Eagle eyed readers will note that these don't add up to 650. This is because many (~100) slots each year are blank due to players retiring or being erased by the software for not being on a team, and by design not enough players are added in the draft to completely fill the league.
We first of all see that someone completely destroyed the power forward position, but we also see a sudden divergence in the point/big/wing division in 3024. This is interesting because the position eligibility rule changes happened in 3017, so the grandfathered guys for the most part stuck around another seven years or so, which seems about right.
.
To determine the best at each position, I first had to determine what position each guy played in, so I averaged every player's listed position over their careers (from 3014-present). I recognize this isn't a perfect metric. Then I had to determine what was good at a given position, and found that the top quartile of performances by points, wings, and bigs were eleven, nine, and eight win shares respectively. I found all those cases where a player posted three such top quartile years for a single team. (Note that although there's no reason a priori to assume they would, the proportions between point and wing/big remain very much the same for three+ year players and one+ year players: 32 to 32.5 versus 85 to 83 where the wing/big is scaled by four.) Finally I summed those years to obtain:
P W B team
15 26 21 76ers
3 0 17 Bobcats
0 6 16 Bucks
20 23 20 Bullets
0 4 3 Bulls
3 3 0 Cavaliers
4 14 9 Celtics
3 4 7 Clippers
0 10 13 Grizzlies
0 0 0 Hawks
4 10 17 Heat
0 5 11 Hornets
6 12 11 Jazz
15 22 9 Kings
8 4 6 Knicks
3 19 11 Lakers
0 3 13 Magic
0 27 15 Nets
8 10 13 Nuggets
4 0 12 Pacers
3 16 18 Raptors
3 11 11 Rockets
12 3 4 Spurs
6 11 20 Suns
5 3 6 SuperSonics
7 4 20 Thunder
13 18 8 Timberwolves
16 14 3 Trailblazers
5 0 4 WarriorsI would also mention that summing across positions gives us a clear Poisson distribution, with the Bullets and 76ers being by far and away the highest two at 63 and 62. The difference between the 76ers and the third place Kings is as big as the difference between the Kings and the thirteenth place Jazz. The particular players for the three topmost:
point
Bullets - Kyrie Irving, Eric Bledsoe
Blazers - Stephen Curry, Gilbert Arenas
76ers - Mike Conley, Tyus Edney, Rowdy Eavenson
Kings - Brandon Knight, Stephon Marbury
wing
Nets - Georges Niang, Matthew Lockhart, Sam Jones, Michael Redd
76ers - Jimmy Chitwood, Dario Saric, Charles Barkley, Ben McLemore
Bullets - Jesus Shuttlesworth, George McCloud, Willie Nauls
big
76ers - Kevin McHale, David Robinson, Alvaro Teheran, Joe Smith, Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Suns - Jermaine O'Neal, Pete Holzman, Jason Collier, Brook Lopez, Shaquille O'Neal
Bullets - DeJuan Blair, Jon Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Hasheem Thabeet, Stromile Swift
Thunder - Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Elton Brand, Vlade Divac, Cliff T. Robinson
.
.
Another way of looking at this is to try and build an actual lineup, so the five best player year totals are all that counts for wing/big and three best for point guards. Because so many teams posted zeros for certain categories I will extend this beyond the three top quartile year requirement to one. The standings don't change except for in big men, where the Nets stay the Nets and are joined by the 76ers, Bobcats, and Thunder with 21, narrowly ahead of the Bullets, Suns, and Raptors with 20. Lotta bigs. Lotta big men.
P W B team
15 28 21 76ers
5 2 21 Bobcats
5 9 16 Bucks
20 26 20 Bullets
5 6 8 Bulls
4 7 7 Cavaliers
6 15 15 Celtics
5 10 12 Clippers
3 12 15 Grizzlies
3 2 4 Hawks
5 12 19 Heat
0 10 14 Hornets
8 14 13 Jazz
16 24 13 Kings
10 5 11 Knicks
6 21 14 Lakers
1 8 15 Magic
4 29 21 Nets
8 15 15 Nuggets
6 0 14 Pacers
5 16 20 Raptors
6 15 15 Rockets
12 3 10 Spurs
8 16 20 Suns
5 3 11 SuperSonics
11 8 21 Thunder
13 20 11 Timberwolves
17 17 10 Trailblazers
7 7 8 WarriorsAnd for your viewing pleasure here are the lineups:
76ers - Kevin McHale / Alvaro Teheran / Shareef Abdur-Rahim
76ers - David Robinson / Joe Smith / Shareef Abdur-Rahim
76ers - Jimmy Chitwood / Charles Barkley / Ben McLemore
76ers - Dario Saric / Charles Barkley / Pee Wee Kirkland
76ers - Mike Conley / Tyus Edney / Rowdy Eavenson
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
76ers
Bobcats - Myles Turner / Myles Turner / Myles Turner
Bobcats - Myles Turner / Myles Turner / Jonathan Bender
Bobcats - Chase Budinger / Myles Turner / Dick Furry
Bobcats - Eric Gordon / Myles Turner / Jermaine O'Neal
Bobcats - Hal Greer / Sidney Deane / Myles Turner
Bobcats
Bobcats just kidding :D
Bobcats
Bobcats - Myles Turner / Nikola Vucevic / Jermaine O'Neal
Bobcats - Jonathan Bender / Nikola Vucevic / Tobi Oyedeji
Bobcats - Chase Budinger / Chase Budinger / Chase Budinger
Bobcats - Eric Gordon / Eric Gordon / Eric Gordon
Bobcats - Hal Greer / Sidney Deane / Rowdy Eavenson
Bobcats
Bucks - DeJuan Blair / Joe Smith / Brook Lopez
Bucks - Kosta Koufos / Luther Wright / Brook Lopez
Bucks - Borat Sagdiyev / Champ Godbolt / Jimmy Butler
Bucks - Kevin Brooks / Calbert Cheaney / Jimmy Butler
Bucks - Jesse Epstein / Kenny Anderson / Allen Iverson
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bucks
Bullets - DeJuan Blair / Kevin Garnett / Hasheem Thabeet
Bullets - Jon Pierce / Kevin Garnett / Stromile Swift
Bullets - Jesus Shuttlesworth / Willie Nauls / Ryan Robertson
Bullets - George McCloud / Willie Nauls / Champ Godbolt
Bullets - Kyrie Irving / Eric Bledsoe / Eric Bledsoe
Bullets
Bullets
Bullets
Bullets
Bullets
Bullets
Bullets
Bullets
Bulls - Blake Griffin / George Mikan / Mystic Stone
Bulls - Emeka Okafor / Kevin Durant / Mystic Stone
Bulls - Jimmy Jackson / Jimmy Jackson / Jimmy Jackson
Bulls - Sandor Clegane / Sandor Clegane / Sandor Clegane
Bulls - Brian Newell / Oscar Robertson / Andrew Harrison
Bulls
Bulls
Bulls
Bulls
Bulls
Bulls
Bulls
Cavaliers - Jahlil Okafor / Tristan Thompson / Kevin Durant
Cavaliers - Kosta Koufos / Tristan Thompson / Kevin Durant
Cavaliers - Benji Wilson / Larry Johnson / Larry Johnson
Cavaliers - Dario Saric / Ben McLemore / Ben McLemore
Cavaliers - Damon Stoudamire / Jesse Epstein / Jesse Epstein
Cavaliers
Cavaliers
Cavaliers
Cavaliers
Cavaliers
Celtics - Joel Embiid / Shareef Abdur-Rahim / Joe Smith
Celtics - Luther Wright / Shareef Abdur-Rahim / Myles Turner
Celtics - Larry Bird / Clyde Drexler / Mark Aguirre
Celtics - Jimmy Jackson / Lamar Odom / Mark Aguirre
Celtics - Steve Francis / Jason Kidd / Jason Kidd
Celtics
Celtics
Celtics
Celtics
Celtics
Celtics
Celtics
Celtics
Celtics
Celtics
Clippers - Greg Monroe / Bob Pettit / Mike Gminski
Clippers - Nikola Vucevic / Dick Furry / Mike Gminski
Clippers - Sandor Clegane / Bill Sharman / Frank Selvy
Clippers - Jimmy Chitwood / Bill Sharman / Nick Fazekas
Clippers - Steve Francis / Dutch Burch / Dutch Burch
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Clippers
Grizzlies - Dikembe Mutombo / Bryant Reeves / Joe Smith
Grizzlies - Tobi Oyedeji / Bryant Reeves / Julius Randle
Grizzlies - Benji Wilson / Michael Smith / Ronald Savage
Grizzlies - Lance Stephenson / Michael Smith / Bill Sharman
Grizzlies - Kenny Anderson / Delaney Rudd / Delon Wright
Grizzlies
Grizzlies
Grizzlies
Grizzlies
Grizzlies
Grizzlies
Grizzlies
Grizzlies
Grizzlies
Grizzlies
Hawks - Jon Pierce / Dominic Long / Dominic Long
Hawks - Frank Kaminsky / Dominic Long / Dominic Long
Hawks - DeMar DeRozan / DeMar DeRozan / DeMar DeRozan
Hawks - Michael Jordan / Michael Jordan / Michael Jordan
Hawks - Isiah Thomas / Jerry West / Jerry West
Hawks
Hawks
Heat - Dolph Schayes / Emeka Okafor / Kosta Koufos
Heat - Alonzo Mourning / Emeka Okafor / Chris Mihm
Heat - Roger Phegley / Ray Allen / Ray Allen
Heat - Frank Selvy / Ray Allen / Ray Allen
Heat - Mike Conley / Allen Iverson / Allen Iverson
Heat
Heat
Heat
Heat
Heat
Hornets - Julius Randle / Tex Silverman / LaMarcus Aldridge
Hornets - Dwight Howard / Tex Silverman / LaMarcus Aldridge
Hornets - Jimmy Chitwood / Stanley Robinson / Michael Smith
Hornets - Clyde Drexler / Harold Miner / Michael Smith
Hornets - tbd / tbd / tbd
Hornets
Hornets
Hornets
Hornets
Jazz - Jonas Valanciunas / LeRon Ellis / LeRon Ellis
Jazz - Blake Griffin / LeRon Ellis / LeRon Ellis
Jazz - George Ackles / Gerald Henderson / Gerald Henderson
Jazz - Bill Sharman / Gerald Henderson / Gerald Henderson
Jazz - Kenny Anderson / Stephon Marbury / Isiah Thomas
Jazz
Jazz
Jazz
Jazz
Kings - Myles Turner / Alvaro Teheran / Greg Monroe
Kings - BJ Mullens / Alvaro Teheran / Greg Oden
Kings - Larry Johnson / Kristaps Porzingis / Rodney Carney
Kings - Kevin Brooks / Lance Stephenson / Rodney Carney
Kings - Brandon Knight / Stephon Marbury / Chris Duhon
Kings
Kings
Kings
Kings
Kings
Kings
Kings
Kings
Kings
Kings
Knicks - Stephon Templeton / Otto Krieghauser / Greg Monroe
Knicks - Marcus Freiberger / Herb Williams / Greg Monroe
Knicks - Sergey Karasev / Sergey Karasev / Sergey Karasev
Knicks - Sam Jones / Sam Jones / Sam Jones
Knicks - Carl Nicks / Quincy McCall / Doug Overton
Knicks
Knicks
Knicks
Knicks
Knicks
Knicks
Knicks
Knicks
Lakers - Gregor Clegane / Jermaine O'Neal / Dick Furry
Lakers - Greg Oden / Jermaine O'Neal / LaMarcus Aldridge
Lakers - Sandor Clegane / Paul Arizin / Otto Porter
Lakers - Kristaps Porzingis / Sergey Karasev / Otto Porter
Lakers - Prince Rogers Nelson / Damon Stoudamire / Rowdy Eavenson
Lakers
Lakers
Lakers
Lakers
Lakers
Lakers
Lakers
Lakers
Lakers
Lakers
Magic - Brook Lopez / Adreian Payne / Chris Mihm
Magic - Shareef Abdur-Rahim / Buck Williams / Chris Mihm
Magic - Magic Johnson / Paul Pressey / RJ Hunter
Magic - Rodney Carney / Walter McCarty / RJ Hunter
Magic - Tyus Edney / Tyus Edney / Tyus Edney
Magic
Magic
Magic
Magic
Magic
Magic
Magic
Nets - Tobi Oyedeji / Shaquille O'Neal / Hakeem Olajuwon
Nets - Kevin Garnett / Joel Embiid / Hakeem Olajuwon
Nets - Georges Niang / Sam Jones / Michael Redd
Nets - Matthew Lockhart / Sam Jones / Dominique Wilkins
Nets - Hot Rod Hundley / Tyus Edney / Billy Donovan
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nets
Nuggets - Boogie Cousins / Hassan Whiteside / Jermaine O'Neal
Nuggets - LaMarcus Aldridge / Mystic Stone / Jermaine O'Neal
Nuggets - Mark Aguirre / Adam Morrison / Paul Arizin
Nuggets - Jimmy Butler / Champ Godbolt / Paul Arizin
Nuggets - Terrell Brandon / Terrell Brandon / Terrell Brandon
Nuggets
Nuggets
Nuggets
Nuggets
Nuggets
Nuggets
Nuggets
Nuggets
Pacers - Tex Silverman / Arvydas Sabonis / Dwight Howard
Pacers - Kevin Durant / Arvydas Sabonis / LaMarcus Aldridge
Pacers - birdman's gonna fly / /
Pacers - not without no wings he ain't / /
Pacers - Bob Cousy / Steve Nash / Steve Nash
Pacers
Pacers
Raptors - Chris Webber / Al Jefferson / Arvydas Sabonis
Raptors - Zach Randolph / Al Jefferson / Bill Russell
Raptors - Tobias Harris / Brandon Roy / Shane Battier
Raptors - Kristaps Porzingis / George Ackles / Shane Battier
Raptors - Nicklaus Templeton / Sleepy Floyd / Sleepy Floyd
Raptors
Raptors
Raptors
Raptors
Raptors
Raptors
Raptors
Raptors
Raptors
Raptors
Rockets - Wilt Chamberlain / Joel Embiid / Tobi Oyedeji
Rockets - Patrick Ewing / Joel Embiid / Jonathan Bender
Rockets - Stanley Robinson / Eric Gordon / Stanley Johnson
Rockets - Allan Houston / Eric Gordon / Kristaps Porzingis
Rockets - Alvin Robertson / Jesse Epstein / Dennis Schröder
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Rockets
Spurs - Elton Brand / Shawn Kemp / BJ Mullens
Spurs - Bryant Reeves / Shawn Kemp / Jason Collier
Spurs - Len Bias / Len Bias / Len Bias
Spurs - Len Bias / Len Bias / Len Bias
Spurs - Jeff Hornacek / Reggie Theus / Willie Lewis
Spurs
Spurs
Spurs
Spurs
Spurs
Suns - Jermaine O'Neal / Jason Collier / Brook Lopez
Suns - Pete Holzman / Jason Collier / Shaquille O'Neal
Suns - Gary Bossert / Lamar Odom / Matthew Lockhart
Suns - Harold Miner / Rudy Gay / Matthew Lockhart
Suns - Oscar Robertson / Fat Lever / Mustafa Shakur
Suns
Suns
Suns
Suns
Suns
Suns
Suns
Suns
Suns
Suns
Suns
Suns
SuperSonics - DeJuan Blair / Jamaal Magloire / Yi Jianlian
SuperSonics - Dalibor Bagaric / Jonas Valanciunas / Yi Jianlian
SuperSonics - George McCloud / George McCloud / George McCloud
SuperSonics - George McCloud / George McCloud / George McCloud
SuperSonics - Ty Lawson / Ty Lawson / Ty Lawson
SuperSonics
SuperSonics
Thunder - Elton Brand / Vlade Divac / Cliff T. Robinson
Thunder - Shareef Abdur-Rahim / Vlade Divac / Maurice Stokes
Thunder - Justin Anderson / Allan Houston / Michael Jordan
Thunder - Quentin Richardson / Calbert Cheaney / Michael Jordan
Thunder - Aaron Harrison / Khalid Reeves / Damian Lillard
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Timberwolves - Greg Oden / Americas John-Lewis / Gregor Clegane
Timberwolves - Buck Williams / Americas John-Lewis / Gregor Clegane
Timberwolves - Rudy Gay / John Vanbiesbrouck / Armen Gilliam
Timberwolves - John Long / Stanley Johnson / Armen Gilliam
Timberwolves - Joe Silvestri / Joe Silvestri / Joe Silvestri
Timberwolves
Timberwolves
Timberwolves
Timberwolves
Timberwolves
Trailblazers - Julius Randle / Nikola Vucevic / Dikembe Mutombo
Trailblazers - Stromile Swift / Nikola Vucevic / Roy Tarpley
Trailblazers - Ronald Savage / Ray Allen / Ray Allen
Trailblazers - Elgin Baylor / Ray Allen / Ray Allen
Trailblazers - Stephen Curry / Gilbert Arenas / Devin Lonc
Trailblazers
Trailblazers
Trailblazers
Trailblazers
Trailblazers
Trailblazers
Trailblazers
Trailblazers
Warriors - Jahlil Okafor / Jermaine O'Neal / Jermaine O'Neal
Warriors - Blake Griffin / Jermaine O'Neal / Jermaine O'Neal
Warriors - Dario Saric / Lex Drum / Michael Jordan
Warriors - Frank Selvy / Lex Drum / Michael Jordan
Warriors - Mustafa Shakur / Brian Newell / Kenny Anderson
Warriors
Warriors
Warriors
Warriors
Warriors 
