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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 21:50:33 GMT -6
Why is a talkative mafia and a dead civ better than a dead mafia and a quiet civ? Not saying you are wrong, but the logic isn't intuitive to me. I agree with you, you take a dead mafia any chance you can get. |
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Post by [Account Deleted] on Jun 7, 2017 21:58:56 GMT -6
Because we're not even certain he's mafia and the players that will talk most will give you the most information as the game goes on and that's really the only currency the vanilla civs have since we can't make any moves
I voted with a list randomizer because that's what 20s suggested people have said is optimal play and I've stuck with that vote. I don't think anyone has any actual evidence someone is mafia at this point even with what has been said so far.
There's a much greater chance 20s is civ and regardless the posts 20s has made so far has illicited a response from others which gives me more information, so whether he is mafia or civ, his presence in the game adds value for me right now.
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 21:59:58 GMT -6
I am so conflicted on 20s. I think he could be such an asset but his refusal to say he is not mafia is too much to overlook.
Whether it is a strategy to maintain credibility as a civilian (i.e., he is mafia) or a strategy to get out of people asking him that question and expecting a non answer to be informative (in which case he is a civ and wants us to kill him to prove he will not answer the question going forward even as a civ), I respect the strategy.
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Post by [Account Deleted] on Jun 7, 2017 22:00:48 GMT -6
Why is a talkative mafia and a dead civ better than a dead mafia and a quiet civ? Not saying you are wrong, but the logic isn't intuitive to me. I agree with you, you take a dead mafia any chance you can get. At this point I have no reason to believe you're mafia more than anyone else so I'm a little befuddled at how quickly people are jumping on bandwagons. |
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 22:03:25 GMT -6
I agree with you, you take a dead mafia any chance you can get. At this point I have no reason to believe you're mafia more than anyone else so I'm a little befuddled at how quickly people are jumping on bandwagons. Game 1 he was a civilian and was obnoxiously transparent that he was a civ. Game 2 he is refusing to say he is not mafia. This is not rocket science. |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 22:04:26 GMT -6
I am so conflicted on 20s. I think he could be such an asset but his refusal to say he is not mafia is too much to overlook. Whether it is a strategy to maintain credibility as a civilian (i.e., he is mafia) or a strategy to get out of people asking him that question and expecting a non answer to be informative (in which case he is a civ and wants us to kill him to prove he will not answer the question going forward even as a civ), I respect the strategy. I don't want you to kill me, but I'm never answering that question. It is necessary to set the precedent moving forward. If I have to die once in addition to yawn last game for people to realize that simply asking people if they are mafia and voting based on the answer is not a viable strategy in this game, so be it. I know this comment is ironic because that is what I did last game. Like I said, it started as a joke/way to make everyone at least talk but then it got me thinking on eric. |
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 22:06:40 GMT -6
I am so conflicted on 20s. I think he could be such an asset but his refusal to say he is not mafia is too much to overlook. Whether it is a strategy to maintain credibility as a civilian (i.e., he is mafia) or a strategy to get out of people asking him that question and expecting a non answer to be informative (in which case he is a civ and wants us to kill him to prove he will not answer the question going forward even as a civ), I respect the strategy. I don't want you to kill me, but I'm never answering that question. It is necessary to set the precedent moving forward. If I have to die once in addition to yawn last game for people to realize that simply asking people if they are mafia and voting based on the answer is not a viable strategy in this game, so be it. I know this comment is ironic because that is what I did last game. Like I said, it started as a joke/way to make everyone at least talk but then it got me thinking on eric. I completely understand. Makes sense to me and that is why I am conflicted. |
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Post by [Account Deleted] on Jun 7, 2017 22:06:55 GMT -6
I don't buy it.
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Post by [Account Deleted] on Jun 7, 2017 22:08:20 GMT -6
I don't see anything from anyone that shouts mafia yet so I'm not jumping on any badwagons I'm riding with random chance
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 22:14:05 GMT -6
20s - your reason for not answering the question is to set a precedent of not answering, right?
It is not to maintain your credibility as a player, right?
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 22:18:35 GMT -6
Thinking more about it, I don't know why you wouldn't just say you're a civ. I take zero comfort from a person professing they are a civ. I don't think it is a useful question in the abstract. It is a useful question if you know a person will always be truthful.
Right now I have every reason to believe you will be truthful. You tattled on me for sending you a text to gain credibility. So far you have demonstrated the need to have credibility, which only supports that you are refusing to answer the question for the sake of credibility.
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 22:19:01 GMT -6
20s - your reason for not answering the question is to set a precedent of not answering, right? It is not to maintain your credibility as a player, right? I'm not sure I completely understand your question. The answer to the first part is yes. What do you mean by maintain my credibility as a player? Want to make sure I understand before I say no to that. |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 22:28:52 GMT -6
Thinking more about it, I don't know why you wouldn't just say you're a civ. I take zero comfort from a person professing they are a civ. I don't think it is a useful question in the abstract. It is a useful question if you know a person will always be truthful. Right now I have every reason to believe you will be truthful. You tattled on me for sending you a text to gain credibility. So far you have demonstrated the need to have credibility, which only supports that you are refusing to answer the question for the sake of credibility. Exactly, so why would you vote for someone because they don't say it? It means nothing. And actually, if you do vote for someone because they won't say it, you are taking great comfort in someone saying it whether you realize it or not. Anyway, I'd like to think my actions in this game greatly suggest I am a civilian more than an answer to a direct question ever could (and one that even mafia could answer "correctly"). Especially to you. I stood up for you right out of the gates because you will be a valuable member of the town and axeing you on the first day would be dumb. Think about what you guys are trying to base your vote on right now. In a game of deception and extreme strategy, you are saying: "oh here is a genius plan - why don't we just ASK them if they are mafia?" The game just isn't that easy. I am learning quickly. I was lucky that eric went full eric last game but I got way too swept up in that and killed yawn as a result. Look how much attention and suspicion I have drawn to myself. If I was mafia, would I not just answer the question the first time and move on? |
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 22:29:38 GMT -6
I mean that you will never say, either directly or indirectly by implication, that you should be trusted because you did not lie when you were mafia.
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 22:29:58 GMT -6
I was responding to the first two sentences of the post I quoted, I forgot to delete the rest and can't edit it now
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jun 7, 2017 22:37:42 GMT -6
I don't care if you answer the question. YOU set the precedent in game 1 and look a little hypocritical(not in a serious way) this time around. Makes me think something is afoot. People need to take notice.
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 22:39:19 GMT -6
Thinking more about it, I don't know why you wouldn't just say you're a civ. I take zero comfort from a person professing they are a civ. I don't think it is a useful question in the abstract. It is a useful question if you know a person will always be truthful. Right now I have every reason to believe you will be truthful. You tattled on me for sending you a text to gain credibility. So far you have demonstrated the need to have credibility, which only supports that you are refusing to answer the question for the sake of credibility. Exactly, so why would you vote for someone because they don't say it? It means nothing. And actually, if you do vote for someone because they won't say it, you are taking great comfort in someone saying it whether you realize it or not. Anyway, I'd like to think my actions in this game greatly suggest I am a civilian more than an answer to a direct question ever could (and one that even mafia could answer "correctly"). Especially to you. I stood up for you right out of the gates because you will be a valuable member of the town and axeing you on the first day would be dumb. Think about what you guys are trying to base your vote on right now. In a game of deception and extreme strategy, you are saying: "oh here is a genius plan - why don't we just ASK them if they are mafia?" The game just isn't that easy. I am learning quickly. I was lucky that eric went full eric last game but I got way too swept up in that and killed yawn as a result. Look how much attention and suspicion I have drawn to myself. If I was mafia, would I not just answer the question the first time and move on? Doing this on my phone sucks. We are on game two. We don't have a ton of experience. Based on game 1, you have demonstrated a need to generate and maintain credibility. In this game, you are unwilling to say you are not mafia. We've established at least two reasons for that. Based on your game 1 behavior, the better assumption is that you want to maintain your credibility. In general asking people if they are mafia in an online game is mostly pointless. We are not asking anyone else the question. We are asking you because of your game 1 behavior. It is similar to how Eric's statement that he is a civ is basically the gold standard right now. I wish you would say, "I am not mafia" every game until you are mafia so that your answer is as "helpful" as any other players answer. I think that is a better strategy for getting rid of the credibility taint. Plus it would give me cover to vote for a random tier 3 player instead of someone I think could be a tremendous ally. |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 22:43:44 GMT -6
I don't care if you answer the question. YOU set the precedent in game 1 and look a little hypocritical(not in a serious way) this time around. Makes me think something is afoot. People need to take notice. Yeah, it was dumb in game one and it is dumb now. I got way too swept up in it last game when I originally started it thinking "this is obviously dumb as shit". |
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jun 7, 2017 22:46:08 GMT -6
I think starting in game 3 that question should be allowed
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 22:54:30 GMT -6
The question is clearly allowed. 20s is just refusing to answer it.
20s take my suggestion under consideration. If your intent is to make your answer to the question "are you mafia?" as useless as it is for every other player, say you are not every game. You will eventually be mafia and you will demonstrate your response is useless and people will not ask you again. I'd rather you take that course than sacrifice yourself this game.
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 22:55:30 GMT -6
In before Pete claims 20s and I are in the middle of a giant deceptive ruse.
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jun 7, 2017 22:55:45 GMT -6
No shit it's allowed. I'm saying ban it. It serves no purpose.
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 22:55:50 GMT -6
It's not so much that you won't answer the question on its own. It's that you didn't volunteer that you are a civ on your own and you're also dodging the question
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 22:56:19 GMT -6
Nah, this is more fun.
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 22:57:09 GMT -6
And that doesn't jibe with how I would expect you to play a civ, which is openly
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Post by [Account Deleted] on Jun 7, 2017 22:57:22 GMT -6
Maybe 20s goal is to remain unpredictable so he's switching strategies every game
Maybe it got him killed quick and he wants to play longer
Maybe he feels it's unsuccessful
Maybe we're overthinking this
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Post by Souper Troopers on Jun 7, 2017 23:00:20 GMT -6
Let's not for get the scouting report he laid out for the mafia.
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 23:03:16 GMT -6
At this point a player would have post a screen cap of the PM from Ankly saying they are mafia for me to vote for anyone but 20s.
Or 20s could just say he is not mafia.
But as long as he refuses to answer, the best information I have clearly says he is the most likely suspect.
Keep in mind I was dead wrong on Odin.
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 23:03:43 GMT -6
Feels good to be on the good guys once again.   |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 23:09:55 GMT -6
At this point a player would have post a screen cap of the PM from Ankly saying they are mafia for me to vote for anyone but 20s. Or 20s could just say he is not mafia. I take zero comfort from a person professing they are a civ.  |
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