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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 19:10:31 GMT -6
Hopefully 20s is just fucking around and comes back to tell us he is not mafia.
If he doesn't, and if he is actually mafia, it's a really interesting strategy on his part.
He will be a civilian much more often than he will be a mafia. So his credibility as a civilian is more important to him than winning a game or two as a mafia. I like it.
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 19:12:07 GMT -6
4 Fecta - JHB, 20s, TimPig, Canes
4 20s - Taco, Soup, SPL, Herb Simon
3 TimPig - Eric, Fecta, Billy King
1 Herb Simon - majic
1 Billy King - gbg
Yet to vote: delap, Pete, Yawn
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Post by Delap on Jun 7, 2017 19:21:20 GMT -6
timpig
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Post by eric on Jun 7, 2017 20:12:01 GMT -6
Not sure why liking something isn't allowed. because there's no record |
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Post by BKay Jewelers on Jun 7, 2017 20:17:27 GMT -6
i strongly disagree with lynching 20s
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 20:18:08 GMT -6
i strongly disagree with lynching 20s why? |
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Post by BKay Jewelers on Jun 7, 2017 20:19:05 GMT -6
i strongly disagree with lynching 20s why? because if he is innocent he is an extremely valuable member of the town. timpig isn't worth shit as a townie, and is even worse as a mafia. |
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 20:21:43 GMT -6
20s has all but admitted he's mafia. I don't think there's any reason to risk eliminating a civilian
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Post by SPL on Jun 7, 2017 20:25:42 GMT -6
because if he is innocent he is an extremely valuable member of the town. timpig isn't worth shit as a townie, and is even worse as a mafia. Interesting... |
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Post by SPL on Jun 7, 2017 20:32:43 GMT -6
20s has all but admitted he's mafia. I don't think there's any reason to risk eliminating a civilian Did you vote yet? |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 20:32:47 GMT -6
20s has all but admitted he's mafia. I don't think there's any reason to risk eliminating a civilian  |
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 20:33:18 GMT -6
i think the better exercise would be to look at 20s actions up til now and figure out what strategy was in his early actions/statements. I think there are two options for his suggestion to vote in TimPig. Either:
a. As Soup suggests, Timpig is an innocent, and suggesting the perfectly logical strategy of taking out someone who we wouldn't expect to contribute much is a good way to get a cheap kill without the blame falling on 20s' shoulders if/when Tim is announced as a vanilla civ.
b. TimPig is fellow mafia, and 20s' suggested strategy paying off will win him additional loyalty from some of the civilians who are unsure of who to trust, and giving him control of a voting bloc to target someone more dangerous to the mafia down the road.
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 20:36:30 GMT -6
Or, you know, it could be exactly what I have said it was the whole time. My vote isn't even cast for TimPig at the moment
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Post by Citizen Cane on Jun 7, 2017 20:55:31 GMT -6
20s past history working against him imo. Im all about the honesty thing, but if you are mafia in this game, you have to be lie. That's the point of the game. If you are mafia and don't lie, you put a massive target on your back because its makes it really obvious to us you are mafia. There is no reason for him to play coy if he is a Civ because he wants to stay alive and help the town out. Yea, this overthinking thing is on overdrive.
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Post by Citizen Cane on Jun 7, 2017 20:56:36 GMT -6
i think the better exercise would be to look at 20s actions up til now and figure out what strategy was in his early actions/statements. I think there are two options for his suggestion to vote in TimPig. Either: b. TimPig is fellow mafia, and 20s' suggested strategy paying off will win him additional loyalty from some of the civilians who are unsure of who to trust, and giving him control of a voting bloc to target someone more dangerous to the mafia down the road. I don't see how sacrificing a mafia member day 1 would be a smart move for the mafia long term. |
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Post by BKay Jewelers on Jun 7, 2017 21:01:36 GMT -6
20s could easily be a cop and you guys could be outing him like dipshits
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 21:05:09 GMT -6
i think the better exercise would be to look at 20s actions up til now and figure out what strategy was in his early actions/statements. I think there are two options for his suggestion to vote in TimPig. Either: b. TimPig is fellow mafia, and 20s' suggested strategy paying off will win him additional loyalty from some of the civilians who are unsure of who to trust, and giving him control of a voting bloc to target someone more dangerous to the mafia down the road. I don't see how sacrificing a mafia member day 1 would be a smart move for the mafia long term. while the game ultimately comes down to who has the most people left, the object is trust. Civs need to build trust among each other so they are able to sniff out mafia ploys. Mafia's best chance to win is to take advantage of confusion and forge trust with civs to avoid suspicion on themselves and to help steer some of the discussion later in the game. This move wouldn't be as obvious as, say, if Odin and Heebs were leading the charge against each other. But if 20s strategy worked, I think it would strengthen the level of respect a lot of the civs have for him as a strategic mind and allow him more leeway to steer suspicions in a pro-mafia direction down the line. If sacrificing a member who might not participate much is the cost for getting 2-3 civilians to follow the lead of a mafia member down the line, it's a worthwhile sacrifice. I'm not saying this was the strategy, i think it's more likely that TimPig or Fecta or whoever was just cannon fodder, but I think there would be an advantage to the mafia sacrificing one of their own, even this early in the game. |
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 21:06:01 GMT -6
20s could easily be a cop and you guys could be outing him like dipshits All he would have to say is "No i'm not mafia". We didn't ask him if he was a cop or bodyguard or anything else |
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Post by SPL on Jun 7, 2017 21:07:32 GMT -6
20s could easily be a cop and you guys could be outing him like dipshits Uhhh.... yeah... he has super cop powers before the first night and knows who is mafia |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 21:09:28 GMT -6
20s could easily be a cop and you guys could be outing him like dipshits All he would have to say is "No i'm not mafia". We didn't ask him if he was a cop or bodyguard or anything else I could say that as a member of the mafia. JHB did it last game. What would saying that accomplish? FOH if you guys think I'm gonna let you guys ask me that question every game like the answer means anything. |
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Post by Citizen Cane on Jun 7, 2017 21:10:19 GMT -6
20s could easily be a cop and you guys could be outing him like dipshits he's not acting like a civ this afternoon/evening. I don't think he should be knocked off first because like I said before, if he is a civ, he's valuable, and the risk/reward of keeping him around this early in the game isn't much. but I don't think there is any doubt he is on most of our radar for the future. |
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 21:10:33 GMT -6
All he would have to say is "No i'm not mafia". We didn't ask him if he was a cop or bodyguard or anything else I could say that as a member of the mafia. JHB did it last game. What would saying that accomplish? FOH if you guys think I'm gonna let you guys ask me that question every game like the answer means anything. You're welcome to lie |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 21:11:27 GMT -6
Pretty strong misdirection by pete here to get the discussion all about me when it was actually previously trending in what I thought was a productive discussion about the best voting strategy for day 1. Something to add to Herb's "interesting pete behavior" file.
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Post by ANK1990 on Jun 7, 2017 21:11:57 GMT -6
Pete/whoever, there is no chance I can maintain the google doc with comprehensive voting records, so I'm throwing that back to the players.
Feel free to post one for people to update.
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 21:12:32 GMT -6
You've established yourself as someone who wants to play both sides honestly. The fact that you're being evasive toward that question is evidence enough for me.
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Post by Citizen Cane on Jun 7, 2017 21:13:59 GMT -6
I don't see how sacrificing a mafia member day 1 would be a smart move for the mafia long term. while the game ultimately comes down to who has the most people left, the object is trust. Civs need to build trust among each other so they are able to sniff out mafia ploys. Mafia's best chance to win is to take advantage of confusion and forge trust with civs to avoid suspicion on themselves and to help steer some of the discussion later in the game. This move wouldn't be as obvious as, say, if Odin and Heebs were leading the charge against each other. But if 20s strategy worked, I think it would strengthen the level of respect a lot of the civs have for him as a strategic mind and allow him more leeway to steer suspicions in a pro-mafia direction down the line. If sacrificing a member who might not participate much is the cost for getting 2-3 civilians to follow the lead of a mafia member down the line, it's a worthwhile sacrifice. I'm not saying this was the strategy, i think it's more likely that TimPig or Fecta or whoever was just cannon fodder, but I think there would be an advantage to the mafia sacrificing one of their own, even this early in the game. I agree with this thought process 100%. I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense to pull a ploy like this day 1. yes we are starting to build trust among the civs, but I don't plan to make decisions of who I am going to trust implicitly right now because thats just asking to be played like a fiddle |
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Post by 20s Navidad on Jun 7, 2017 21:14:08 GMT -6
You've established yourself as someone who wants to play both sides honestly. The fact that you're being evasive toward that question is evidence enough for me. I have? How would playing the mafia side honestly ever be a good idea? |
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Post by Lazy Pete on Jun 7, 2017 21:22:11 GMT -6
Here's one reason Hopefully 20s is just fucking around and comes back to tell us he is not mafia. If he doesn't, and if he is actually mafia, it's a really interesting strategy on his part. He will be a civilian much more often than he will be a mafia. So his credibility as a civilian is more important to him than winning a game or two as a mafia. I like it. And also, a mafia member could act honestly in a way that services the mafia as a collective be dishonest. For example, if you are in fact mafia and I was one of your partners, this exact situation would be a perfect way to build trust for me among the remaining group |
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Post by [Account Deleted] on Jun 7, 2017 21:29:59 GMT -6
I hate to make a defense of another player this early in the game but even if 20s is mafia, it would behoove us to leave him in the game for now since he is talkative as hell
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Post by Heebs on Jun 7, 2017 21:48:45 GMT -6
Why is a talkative mafia and a dead civ better than a dead mafia and a quiet civ?
Not saying you are wrong, but the logic isn't intuitive to me.
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