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Post by [Account Deleted] on Jul 28, 2014 7:23:11 GMT -6
Draft picks move hands a lot in TMBSL, but often times, no one comes back and analyzes what is really given up when a team trades its picks. I want to take a look at what actually got traded when teams moved their picks in the creation draft. This is by no means intended to be a comprehensive list of all the one-sided trades in the creation draft, but these were several that stuck out to me when combing through old trades and the draft history list. This is a list that ignores context and looks to see exactly which players were swapped with the assets moved in trades involving only picks.
So here are the trades that look hilariously bad in hindsight:
Trade #3
The Trade
Celtics trade:
1.15
Cavs trade:
3.11
4.19
6.05
3001 first
3002 first
The Result
Celtics trade:
Artis Gilmore
Cavs trade:
Dan Roundfield
Marvin Barnes
6.05 (who knows)
Marshall Ashford
FORFEIT
The Analysis
This is probably the best haul for a team on the losing end of a trade, with Dump receiving Dan Roundfield and Marvin Barnes. However, Dump would later turn around Dan Roundfield to find himself on this list again. The rest of his haul was mediocre. Who knows who 6.05 was, but there weren't many contributors past the fifth round in creation. With the futures he was traded, Dump selected Marshall Ashford and forfeited a pick. Not very much for a guy who was the eventual centerpiece of several very good Cavaliers' squads.
Trade #4
The Trade
Knicks trade:
1.24
Pistons trade:
3.08
DET '01 1st
DET '02 1st
The Result
Knicks trade:
Brian Winters
Pistons trade:
Darnell Hillman
Brad Holland
FORFEIT
Analysis
The Pistons clearly raked in this trade. They received a future playoff MVP point guard who has average 21 points and 9 assists on .472/.417/.807 splits over the course of his sim career. In return, Skrouse netted Darnell Hillman (who was eventually traded back to the Pistons and is now a role player at best), Brad Holland (TMBSL's career leader in turnovers), and a forfeited 1.29 pick the year after Darnell Hillman and Brian Winters won Tyler a championship.
Trade #5
The Trade
Rockets trade:
1.22
Bucks trade:
3.1
MIL '01
MIL '02
The Result
Rockets trade:
Truck Robinson
Bucks trade:
Spencer Haywood
Kyle Macy
FORFEIT
Analysis
The truly ironic part about this trade is that Truck has come full circle and is now a Rocket after GM Dilworth basically gave him away for a couple of bench warmers at best. Haywood had a decent creation season as a starter for the Rockets, but quickly declined thereafter. He is an emergency player at best now. Of the two future picks, Kyle Macy is no longer in TMBSL as far as I can tell and the other pick was forfeited. While Dil flipped these picks for other assets, that is still a very poor return for a true superstar in Truck Robinson. As I said though, the story does have a happy ending as Truck wound up in Houston.
Trade #7
The Trade
Timberwolves trade:
02 1st
4.11
5.19
Celtics trade:
2.15
The Result
Timberwolves trade:
Ricky Roe
Junior Bridgeman
Tim Bassett
Celtics trade:
Swen Nater
Analysis
Dump was raped. For the centerpiece of the Timberwolves' 4.0 franchise, all they had to give up was Ricky Roe, Junior Bridgeman, and Tim Bassett. Roe still has the opportunity to turn into a decent role player, Bridgeman has been a decent bench scorer who has been passed around, and Tim Bassett is finally reaching the end of an awful 5 year, $3MM creation contract (during which he provided absolutely nothing in the way of production). All Swen has done is put up monster scoring seasons and lead the T'Wolves to a regular season division win in the Midbest Conference during the Creation season.
Trade #12
The Trade
Timberwolves trade:
'01 1st
9.19
Celtics trade:
3.11
The Result
Timberwolves trade:
Sly Williams
Who the fuck knows or cares
Celtics trade:
Dan Roundfield
Analysis
Before Dan Roundfield was the vastly overpaid starting SF of the Warriors and Thunder, he was a reasonably priced option that was a great fit in the Timberwolves slow-paced, inside-focused offense. He played good defense and provided double digit scoring at a fairly efficient rate while really fitting well into Ian's system. Again, the Celtics gave this away to Ian for nearly nothing. He got somebody at 9.19 who was surely inconsequential and also gained the opportunity to pay Sly Williams a rookie contract for at least three seasons.
During the creation draft, there were also a couple of trades that were highly scrutinized as very one-sided and they didn't turn out to be all that one-sided in hindsight. Here they are:
Trade #6
The Trade
Thunder trade:
3.26
4.4
5.26
6.4
OKC 01
OKC 02
Raptors trade:
1.17
2.13
The Result
Thunder trade:
George Johnson
Kobe Bogues
Cliff Pondexter
6.4 (who knows)
Andre Vojtech
Lamond Murray
Raptors trade:
Lonnie Shelton
Rich Kelley
The Analysis
In what was likely the most highly criticized trade in 4.0 history until Ankly lost his mind yesterday, JHB picked up two additional picks in the first two rounds of creation for what looked like scraps at the time. However, his inability to optimize talent led to him getting Lonnie Shelton (a productive player who I expected much more from) and Rich Kelley (a steaming pile of overpaid shit). For those two players, the Raptors received one half of the Block Brothers, a solid defensive center in Bogues, and a young player who could still develop into a strong starter in Lamond Murray. The rest of the trade is indeed spare parts worth nothing, but those were three solid pieces. Unfortunately, the Raptors didn't get as much value as they should have when passing along George Johnson and Kobe Bogues.
Trade #8
The Trade
Bulls trade:
2.19
4.05
8.05
9.25
Nuggets trade:
2.16
The Result
Bulls trade:
Earl Monroe
Dave Meyers
who knows
who knows
Nuggets trade:
Tom Barker
The Analysis
While I still believe the Nuggets won this trade, it does not appear quite as one-sided in hindsight as it did when the trade happened. At the time, I thought this was an absolute disaster for the Bulls. They traded up three spots in the second round while that pick was over ten picks away to "get their guy". While Monroe was very productive for some very good Pacers teams after Jerry blew it up in year one, he is washed up and a backup PG at best at this point in his career. Barker has never been what Bruns likely thought he would be, but he is a very good defensive and rebounding SF and a solid offensive contributor. Unfortunately, his best years will not be played with Chicago.
So here are the trades that look hilariously bad in hindsight:
Trade #3
The Trade
Celtics trade:
1.15
Cavs trade:
3.11
4.19
6.05
3001 first
3002 first
The Result
Celtics trade:
Artis Gilmore
Cavs trade:
Dan Roundfield
Marvin Barnes
6.05 (who knows)
Marshall Ashford
FORFEIT
The Analysis
This is probably the best haul for a team on the losing end of a trade, with Dump receiving Dan Roundfield and Marvin Barnes. However, Dump would later turn around Dan Roundfield to find himself on this list again. The rest of his haul was mediocre. Who knows who 6.05 was, but there weren't many contributors past the fifth round in creation. With the futures he was traded, Dump selected Marshall Ashford and forfeited a pick. Not very much for a guy who was the eventual centerpiece of several very good Cavaliers' squads.
Trade #4
The Trade
Knicks trade:
1.24
Pistons trade:
3.08
DET '01 1st
DET '02 1st
The Result
Knicks trade:
Brian Winters
Pistons trade:
Darnell Hillman
Brad Holland
FORFEIT
Analysis
The Pistons clearly raked in this trade. They received a future playoff MVP point guard who has average 21 points and 9 assists on .472/.417/.807 splits over the course of his sim career. In return, Skrouse netted Darnell Hillman (who was eventually traded back to the Pistons and is now a role player at best), Brad Holland (TMBSL's career leader in turnovers), and a forfeited 1.29 pick the year after Darnell Hillman and Brian Winters won Tyler a championship.
Trade #5
The Trade
Rockets trade:
1.22
Bucks trade:
3.1
MIL '01
MIL '02
The Result
Rockets trade:
Truck Robinson
Bucks trade:
Spencer Haywood
Kyle Macy
FORFEIT
Analysis
The truly ironic part about this trade is that Truck has come full circle and is now a Rocket after GM Dilworth basically gave him away for a couple of bench warmers at best. Haywood had a decent creation season as a starter for the Rockets, but quickly declined thereafter. He is an emergency player at best now. Of the two future picks, Kyle Macy is no longer in TMBSL as far as I can tell and the other pick was forfeited. While Dil flipped these picks for other assets, that is still a very poor return for a true superstar in Truck Robinson. As I said though, the story does have a happy ending as Truck wound up in Houston.
Trade #7
The Trade
Timberwolves trade:
02 1st
4.11
5.19
Celtics trade:
2.15
The Result
Timberwolves trade:
Ricky Roe
Junior Bridgeman
Tim Bassett
Celtics trade:
Swen Nater
Analysis
Dump was raped. For the centerpiece of the Timberwolves' 4.0 franchise, all they had to give up was Ricky Roe, Junior Bridgeman, and Tim Bassett. Roe still has the opportunity to turn into a decent role player, Bridgeman has been a decent bench scorer who has been passed around, and Tim Bassett is finally reaching the end of an awful 5 year, $3MM creation contract (during which he provided absolutely nothing in the way of production). All Swen has done is put up monster scoring seasons and lead the T'Wolves to a regular season division win in the Midbest Conference during the Creation season.
Trade #12
The Trade
Timberwolves trade:
'01 1st
9.19
Celtics trade:
3.11
The Result
Timberwolves trade:
Sly Williams
Who the fuck knows or cares
Celtics trade:
Dan Roundfield
Analysis
Before Dan Roundfield was the vastly overpaid starting SF of the Warriors and Thunder, he was a reasonably priced option that was a great fit in the Timberwolves slow-paced, inside-focused offense. He played good defense and provided double digit scoring at a fairly efficient rate while really fitting well into Ian's system. Again, the Celtics gave this away to Ian for nearly nothing. He got somebody at 9.19 who was surely inconsequential and also gained the opportunity to pay Sly Williams a rookie contract for at least three seasons.
During the creation draft, there were also a couple of trades that were highly scrutinized as very one-sided and they didn't turn out to be all that one-sided in hindsight. Here they are:
Trade #6
The Trade
Thunder trade:
3.26
4.4
5.26
6.4
OKC 01
OKC 02
Raptors trade:
1.17
2.13
The Result
Thunder trade:
George Johnson
Kobe Bogues
Cliff Pondexter
6.4 (who knows)
Andre Vojtech
Lamond Murray
Raptors trade:
Lonnie Shelton
Rich Kelley
The Analysis
In what was likely the most highly criticized trade in 4.0 history until Ankly lost his mind yesterday, JHB picked up two additional picks in the first two rounds of creation for what looked like scraps at the time. However, his inability to optimize talent led to him getting Lonnie Shelton (a productive player who I expected much more from) and Rich Kelley (a steaming pile of overpaid shit). For those two players, the Raptors received one half of the Block Brothers, a solid defensive center in Bogues, and a young player who could still develop into a strong starter in Lamond Murray. The rest of the trade is indeed spare parts worth nothing, but those were three solid pieces. Unfortunately, the Raptors didn't get as much value as they should have when passing along George Johnson and Kobe Bogues.
Trade #8
The Trade
Bulls trade:
2.19
4.05
8.05
9.25
Nuggets trade:
2.16
The Result
Bulls trade:
Earl Monroe
Dave Meyers
who knows
who knows
Nuggets trade:
Tom Barker
The Analysis
While I still believe the Nuggets won this trade, it does not appear quite as one-sided in hindsight as it did when the trade happened. At the time, I thought this was an absolute disaster for the Bulls. They traded up three spots in the second round while that pick was over ten picks away to "get their guy". While Monroe was very productive for some very good Pacers teams after Jerry blew it up in year one, he is washed up and a backup PG at best at this point in his career. Barker has never been what Bruns likely thought he would be, but he is a very good defensive and rebounding SF and a solid offensive contributor. Unfortunately, his best years will not be played with Chicago.
