3017 Win Shares (478 views)

[eric]

h/t ANK1990


All-NBA players by WS rank
PG: 1, 2, 3
SG: x, 5, 2 (Lance would be #2 of SG, but...)
SF: 1, x, 2 (Stanley would be #2 of SF, so it works out pretty well)
PF: 1, 3, 2
C_: 4, 1, 11 (career achievement award, I guess?)
Oscar is the deserved MVP.

point guard

20.7 Oscar Robertson
17.6 Eric Bledsoe
16.4 Mike Conley
13.8 Alvin Robertson
13.2 Stephon Marbury
12.8 Mustafa Shakur
10.4 Allen Iverson
10.0 Dutch Burch
9.5 Steve Nash
9.3 Magic Johnson
9.2 Stephen Curry
8.6 Andrew Harrison
8.5 Pickles Kennedy
8.5 Delon Wright
8.4 Sedale Threatt
7.9 Scoonie Murray
7.8 Tim Hardaway
6.0 Jason Kidd
5.8 Delonte West
5.4 Billy Donovan
5.2 John Wall
4.9 Mark Jackson
3.7 Moochie Norris
3.6 Lenny Wilkens
3.5 Dana Barros
3.4 Jamal Crawford
3.1 Chris Duhon
2.7 Mookie Blaylock
2.5 Sebastian Telfair
2.4 Ty Lawson
2.2 Quincy McCall
2.0 Gerald Nappy
1.9 Sherman Douglas
1.8 Irv Bemoras
1.8 Charlie Ward
1.0 Pooh Richardson
0.9 Lionel Hollins
0.9 Rickey Green
0.9 Jay Humphries
0.8 Sergio Llull
0.6 Taylor Swift
0.6 Ricky Rubio
0.6 Speedy Claxton
0.4 Eric Maynor
0.4 Tyus Jones
0.4 Christian Kukoc
0.4 Jrue Holiday
0.4 Byron Irvin
0.3 BJ Armstrong
0.2 Jonny Flynn
0.2 Junie Lewis
0.1 Patrick Beverley
0.1 Jerian Grant
0.1 Toney Douglas
0.1 Kina Grannis
0.0 D'Angelo Russell
0.0 Hayden Radejevic
0.0 Kurt Jackson
-0.1 Waterbug Grant
-0.1 Butch McRae
-0.1 Dick Atha
-0.2 Scoonie Hunt
-0.2 Parker Pollard
-0.6 Brandon Butler
-0.7 LaDon Childs
-1.0 Larry Costello
-1.1 Jeff Teague
-1.5 John Morton
-1.5 Steve Alford
-1.8 Roddy Beaubois
-5.6 Josh Coleman
-5.7 AJ Price
-9.1 Neetnum Nagdorus
-10.2 Angel Jamison
-10.6 Teodor Ethan
shooting guard

14.0 Stanley Robinson
13.4 Gary Bossert
13.3 Kristaps Porzingis
10.8 Ray Allen
10.8 Aaron Harrison
10.7 Clyde Drexler
10.5 Jerry West
9.6 Stanley Johnson
9.6 Lex Drum
9.3 Mark Gottfried
8.8 Michael Redd
7.9 JR Smith
7.8 Gary Payton
7.3 Dale Ellis
7.2 Frank Selvy
6.7 Acie Law IV
5.4 Hank Gathers
5.3 Michael Jordan
5.0 Phil Lovelette
4.8 Arron Afflalo
4.6 Dick Farley
4.0 Juan Keaney
4.0 Emmanuel Mudiay
3.9 Chris Childs
3.1 Desmond Mason
3.1 DJ Strawberry
3.1 Robert Vaden
2.8 Dorrell Wright
2.8 Mario Hezonja
2.6 Jameer Nelson
2.4 Michael Frazier
2.2 Brandon Jennings
2.0 Wesley Matthews
2.0 Vernon Strokes
1.7 DerMarr Johnson
1.3 RJ Hunter
1.3 Rocky Francis
1.2 Marcus Thornton
1.2 Kenny Battle
1.1 DeShawn Stevenson
1.1 James Harden
1.0 Chase Budinger
1.0 Muggsy Bogues
0.9 DeMar DeRozan
0.8 Byron Scott
0.7 Todd Lichti
0.5 Sidney Moncrief
0.5 Nick Anderson
0.5 Otis Birdsong
0.5 Austin Daye
0.2 Sergii Gladyr
0.2 Caris LeVert
0.2 Dick Rosenthal
0.2 Danny Green
0.2 Reggie King
0.1 Slick Leonard
0.1 Trey Podoloff
0.0 Devin Booker
0.0 Jay Edwards
0.0 Jodie Meeks
0.0 Gerald Henderson
0.0 Mike Miller
-0.1 Wayne Ellington
-0.2 Larry Hennessey
-0.3 Adrian Magliore
-0.4 Jonah Samake
-0.7 Blue Edwards
-1.8 Curt Kelly
-2.0 Mason Cowens
-2.3 Magnus Amittai
-4.7 Togo Palazzi
small forward

14.5 Georges Niang
13.6 Lance Stephenson
13.0 Charles Barkley
8.8 George McCloud
8.6 Walter McCarty
8.2 Glen Rice
7.6 Armen Gilliam
7.0 Nick Fazekas
6.4 Kittenfish Cathasach
6.3 Marques Johnson
6.2 Al Horford
5.4 Evan Turner
5.2 Othella Harrington
5.1 Sean Elliot
4.8 Michael Smith
4.6 Marcus Fizer
4.3 Bo Kimble
4.1 Pee Wee Kirkland
4.0 Xavier Henry
3.9 Justin Anderson
3.8 Gene Dyker
3.8 Tom Sanders
3.5 Reggie Miller
3.5 Justice Winslow
3.3 Bailey Howell
3.1 Al-Farouq Aminu
2.9 Ime Udoka
2.8 Andre Igoudala
2.8 Ducky Potter
2.6 Dennis Hopson
2.6 Quentin Richardson
2.5 Tom Marshall
2.2 Paul George
2.1 Morris Almond
1.8 Kelly Oubre
1.7 Earl Clark
1.7 Jim Fritsche
1.7 Zippy Morocco
1.6 Broderick Langhi
1.6 Victor Claver
1.4 Lou Tsioropoulos
1.4 Clifford Robinson
1.3 Colin Hyatt
1.1 DeeAndre Hulett
1.0 Jackie Moon
0.8 Darius Miles
0.7 Sam Young
0.6 Boris Nachamkin
0.6 Donnell Harvey
0.6 Kobe Bryant
0.4 Terrence Williams
0.3 Jonas Jerebko
0.3 Hedo Turkoglu
0.2 Dan Langhi
0.1 Tom Hawkins
0.0 DeMarre Carroll
0.0 Patrick Douglas
0.0 Sarunas Marciulionis
-0.3 Mateen Thorpe
-0.5 Oscar Schmidt
-0.7 Peja Stojakovic
-0.8 Tyreke Evans
-1.1 LaDon Rooks
-1.1 Hayden McCoy
-1.3 Tony Lovelette
-2.5 Yirmiyaho Iair
-4.9 Absimov Hunter
power forward

14.9 Myles Turner
11.5 Shareef Abdur-Rahim
11.3 Jermaine O'Neal
9.9 David Robinson
9.8 Jon Pierce
9.1 Americas John-Lewis
8.8 Kevin Durant
8.7 Al Jefferson
8.6 Jason Collier
8.5 Boogie Cousins
8.1 Cliff T. Robinson
8.0 Tex Silverman
7.9 Bob Pettit
7.1 Dick Furry
6.9 Sam Perkins
6.2 Kenyon Martin
6.0 Thurl Bailey
5.8 Pervis Ellison
5.5 Danny Ferry
5.5 Hakeem Olajuwon
5.5 Yi Jianlian
5.4 Derrick Coleman
4.7 Elden Campbell
4.6 Stacey King
4.4 Blake Griffin
4.4 Kenny Sears
4.4 Terry Mills
4.2 Ben Wallace
4.2 Randy White
3.8 Julian Wright
3.7 Zydrunas Ilgauskas
3.5 Jordan Hill
3.4 Joshua Smith
3.4 Dwayne Schintzius
3.4 Daniel Orton
3.0 Bob Douglas
2.9 Scoonie Saperstein
2.8 Scottie Pippen
2.7 Bobby Portis
2.7 Patrick Patterson
2.4 Josh Smith
2.4 Manute Bol
2.1 Jamaal Magloire
2.0 Tiago Splitter
2.0 Karl-Anthony Towns
2.0 Mobius Bryant
1.9 Dante Cunningham
1.8 Taylor Griffin
1.7 Neon Boudeaux
1.7 Jon Brockman
1.6 Efthiios Rentzias
1.6 Aaron White
1.5 Tom Barker
1.3 Burt Spice
1.3 Gary Leonard
1.3 Robert Upshaw
0.9 Chalky Studebaker
0.9 Omri Casspi
0.8 Shaun Livingston
0.3 Jordan Monroe
0.2 Chris Welp
0.1 Eduardo Najera
0.1 BH Born
0.1 Dino Radja
0.1 Adrian Caldwell
0.1 Thomas Kersey
0.0 Gabe Olaseni
0.0 Nathan Vandivier
0.0 Walter Dukes
0.0 Ulaakees Galmuseeth
0.0 Nick Young
-0.1 DaJuan Summers
-0.1 Robert Fauber
-0.2 Dallas Comegys
-0.3 Charles Delk
-0.4 Roy Rogers Jr
-0.5 Gil Reich III
-1.2 Jim Perdue
-1.4 Kurt Mashburn
-1.4 Ricardo Enright
-1.5 Deshawn Olsen
-1.8 Kobe Holzman
center

10.8 Greg Monroe
10.7 Wilt Chamberlain
10.3 DeJuan Blair
10.0 Greg Oden
9.7 Dwight Howard
9.7 Chris Mihm
8.7 Stromile Swift
8.5 Jahlil Okafor
8.3 Chet Noe
7.9 Champ Godbolt
7.5 Emeka Okafor
7.3 Catfish Cathasach
6.7 Priest Lauderdale
6.5 Darrall Imhoff
6.4 Hawkeye Kaminsky
6.3 Ha Seung-Jin
6.2 Steve Stipanovich
5.7 Cliff Alexander
5.6 Marc Gasol
5.5 James Edwards
4.6 Dalibor Bagaric
4.5 Marcus Camby
4.4 Art Spoelstra
4.4 Ralph Sampson
4.3 Antoine Carr
4.2 Shawn Kemp
3.8 Vlade Divac
3.8 Sam Bowie
3.0 Ray Felix
2.7 Tom LaGarde
2.6 BJ Mullens
2.6 Terry Davis
2.2 Josh McRoberts
2.0 Derrick Favors
1.9 Tristan Benjamin
1.6 Red Karr
1.4 Erick Dampier
1.4 Felton Spencer
1.3 Montrezl Harrell
1.2 Taj Gibson
1.2 Tyler Hansbrough
0.9 Aaron Gray
0.7 Willie Cauley-Stein
0.7 Mamadou N'Diaye
0.6 Martin Muursepp
0.6 Dave Embry
0.6 Hector Abdul-Wahad
0.5 Tom Hammonds
0.4 Juwan Howard
0.3 Alex Carril
0.3 Otto Krieghauser
0.2 Doug Roth
0.2 Rudy D'Emilio
0.2 Etan Thomas
0.2 Chris Obekpa
0.1 Jesse Dickau
0.1 Jayson Williams
0.1 Joel Pryzbilla
0.0 JR Reid
0.0 Edwin Howard
-0.1 Gene Schwinger
-0.2 Nate Hoyt
-0.2 Scoonie Camby
-0.3 Wetzel Shea
-1.0 Myles Garnett
-1.4 Joseph Green
-1.7 Hasheem Thabeet
-6.1 Isaac Gaines

[eric]

9.6 Lex Drum
0.9 DeMar DeRozan

Take that, granola!!!

[Heebs]

needs a poll imo

[victorj24]

3.9 Justin Anderson
4.6 Stacey King

[RWisoursavior]

Thabeet is the 2nd worst C in the league? What?

[RWisoursavior]

I guess that makes sense with 3 wins and all

[ANK1990]

It also makes sense given he is the worst offensive center in the league.

[Heebs]

25 ppg on .410 shooting. Good lord, RW could tank another couple of years with Thabeet.

[eric]

May 24, 2015 12:25:10 GMT -6 RWisoursavior said:

Thabeet is the 2nd worst C in the league? What?

Defense is always hard, Win Shares basically takes the team value and scales by steals/blocks. This is exacerbated in our league where teams are much farther away from the mean than in real life. Taking your team as an example, your DRtg is about 125 (by design). The worst teams in NBA history didn't even reach 115. Even a good shot blocker like Thabeet is going to get a crummy Defensive Win Shares rating on a team like that. In fact he generated 1.3 DWS (the only Hawk with a positive score), but compare to the Admiral's league leading figure of 7.1. They're much closer defensively than that margin would suggest, probably. There's really no way around it without on/off measures, and even if we had those they have their own issues.

The main thing is offense, though. His scoring at .936 points per true shot attempt is below average and that multiplies by his moderately high volume, then throw in his high turnover rate and he's in the red on Offensive Win Shares at -3.0. Robinson's scoring is only 0.997, but he shoots less and turns it over less so he does better with +2.8.

[Mad King]

Dutch 8th at PG Nice

[Lazy Pete]

Suck it Aaron Harrison

[Bankz]

eric forgive me as I know very little on the advanced stats.

But if AC Law played starters minutes how much better of a win share could he of had?

Seems like I've had my best SG coming off the bench.

[kn88]

The people's MVP with a strong 17.6.

[eric]

May 24, 2015 17:37:49 GMT -6 @:dramaqueen: said:

eric forgive me as I know very little on the advanced stats.

But if AC Law played starters minutes how much better of a win share could he of had?

Seems like I've had my best SG coming off the bench.

There is a rate version of Win Shares most frequently given in terms of per 48 minutes. In general it is reckoned that each player has a point at which increased or reduced usage will reduce or increase efficiency respectively, so a Chris Andersen type thrives in limited minutes and would be over-exposed with higher usage, and a Wilt type becomes comically efficient (73% FG%) with reduced usage, but there is also the concept of a player being "cold" when not playing for prolonged periods vs. warming into a game by taking more shots. To my knowledge neither theory has been rigorously tested.

That is kind of a long way to say there's no real way of knowing. We can take a guess by taking Law's WS/48 (.143) and multiplying by Keaney's minutes (2624) as a rough estimate of both his playing time and efficiency over that additional time and get 7.8 Win Shares. If he got up to 40 minutes per game over 80 games by this metric he would generate 9.5 Win Shares. Looking at Law's career specifically he generated higher WS/48 values when he got more minutes (3013-3015) than since, but he has also shifted positionally and of course gotten older.

I would say in general to play more efficient players more but keep an eye on defense. In this case Keaney with his size and higher Defense rating might be significantly better on defense as a shooting guard, so I would think you'd be better off with him getting most of your shooting guard minutes given that offensively he's worse but pretty close to Law's efficiency.