|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 9:29:10 GMT -6
Should we discuss the future of the mentor camp here?
I think we established in shout that it is currently extremely overpowered as is and that no one (save those with extreme bias due to their current roster and bank roll) thinks it should remain a reward as currently drafted. Taking the general rate of 1 attribute point per 1000 (or more) dump bucks (see, eg, 5k for +5; 4.5k for +3), the ability to earn up to 227.5 attribute points ((100-5)+(100-5)+((100-5)/2)) for 60k dump bucks is outrageous, especially considering that we already cap (i) the number of SCs/RCs a player may receive and (ii) the ability to duplicate an RC/SC in a particular attribute.
Should we abolish the reward? Rework it entirely? Discuss!
|
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 9:35:38 GMT -6
Lol at your extreme example. I'll argue the opposite.
60k for 2.5 attribute points could also happen.
|
|
IanBoyd
Former GM 
Posts: 4,969
Likes: 687
Dump Bucks: 8,575
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by IanBoyd on Feb 20, 2015 9:37:52 GMT -6
If Odin wants to keep mentor camps, I'd like to see them be locked in from having any SC/RCs applied to them. Being able to add another +24 to a mentored guy that just got a +250 is ridiculous.
So if a guy received SC/RCs, they're illegible from being mentored anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 9:38:23 GMT -6
I think it should stay, but be reformed significantly.
My proposal is that the max attribute bonus a player may gain is 60 (keeping with the lowest possible cost of an attribute point, 1k dump bucks) and that no attribute can go above 85. This is still an extraordinary benefit to the player, as it is the only way to get this sort of transformative boost in attributes, given that we currently limit a GM's ability to boost attribute points. This is like buying an extra TWELVE SCs. The GM lists 3 categories to boost, and each category gets 20 points, with unused points rolling over to the next category.
Unused attribute points should offset the potential lost through the reward. For every 3 unused attributes points, the potential lost is reduced by one.
For example.
Soup uses MC from Thompson on Harrison.
He lists his attributes as 1. Jumper, 2. inside, 3. handling.
THompson's attributes are: Jumper - 100, inside - 100, and handling - 91
Harrison's attributes are: jumper - 70, inside - 60, and handling - 80
First we allocate 20 to jumper, which would bring it to 90. We can't do that (85 max), so we roll 5 over to inside. We allocate 25 to inside, bringing it to 85. We can do that. Then we try to allocate 20 to handling, but we cannot because Thompson's handling is only 91. So we allocate 11 to handling, leaving us 9 attribute points unallocated. The unallocated 9 attribute points are used to offset the potential lost at a rate of 3 to 1. So instead of -10 potential, Harrison only has -7 (9 divided by 3 is 3. 10 minus 3 is 7).
|
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 9:39:15 GMT -6
Once again 250 is an extreme eggageration.
|
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 9:39:19 GMT -6
Lol at your extreme example. I'll argue the opposite. 60k for 2.5 attribute points could also happen. Not even devine is dumb enough to let that happen. |
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 9:43:38 GMT -6
Lol at your extreme example. I'll argue the opposite. 60k for 2.5 attribute points could also happen. Not even devine is dumb enough to let that happen. Your original scenario is Devine level bad too. |
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 9:45:24 GMT -6
The only limit I would add to current camp is that you can cross positions like pg/c
|
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 9:49:37 GMT -6
Not even devine is dumb enough to let that happen. Your original scenario is Devine level bad too. My original "scenario"? I clearly stated it was the maximum number of points a player could receive. If anything, we should use the hypothetical I put forward (which I think was generous to Harrison due to needing the attributes to illustrate all the various rules I proposed). In the Harrison case, it would be 71 points, assuming you chose jumper/inside as your replacement stats and handling as your averaging stat. That is over 150 dump bucks less per attribute point than an SC, currently the cheapest way to add points to a player. If we bring into the equation the cost of duplicate SCs to jumper/inside, it is even more egregious. Going further, you're getting the equivalent of 14 SCs, most of them duplicates (triplicates, quadruplicates, etc), which is not otherwise possible. Frankly, the idea I proposed is more than fair to the MC buyer, and I think the 60 point max should be lowered to 45 or 50, given all the current limits on SC/RCs. |
|
Bankz
Former GM
Posts: 7,254
Likes: 895
Dump Bucks: 18,475
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by Bankz on Feb 20, 2015 9:52:09 GMT -6
I don't see any real negative about changing the Mentor Camp to what Heebs posted.
|
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 9:54:18 GMT -6
Of course you don't.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lazy Pete on Feb 20, 2015 9:57:31 GMT -6
I don't hate the current set-up. My two seuggestions are to limit it to players of the same/similar positions (ie bigs can only mentor other bigs, guards can only mentor other guards) and that each GM can only use a mentor camp one time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 10:00:31 GMT -6
I don't hate the current set-up. My two seuggestions are to limit it to players of the same/similar positions (ie bigs can only mentor other bigs, guards can only mentor other guards) and that each GM can only use a mentor camp one time. With you on the position limits. Wouldn't be against the limit of only one time either, but make it 10 seasons or something like that. |
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 10:02:09 GMT -6
Your original scenario is Devine level bad too. My original "scenario"? I clearly stated it was the maximum number of points a player could receive. If anything, we should use the hypothetical I put forward (which I think was generous to Harrison due to needing the attributes to illustrate all the various rules I proposed). In the Harrison case, it would be 71 points, assuming you chose jumper/inside as your replacement stats and handling as your averaging stat. That is over 150 dump bucks less per attribute point than an SC, currently the cheapest way to add points to a player. If we bring into the equation the cost of duplicate SCs to jumper/inside, it is even more egregious. Going further, you're getting the equivalent of 14 SCs, most of them duplicates (triplicates, quadruplicates, etc), which is not otherwise possible. Polar Bearly, the idea I proposed is more than fair to the MC buyer, and I think the 60 point max should be lowered to 45 or 50, given all the current limits on SC/RCs. I think Harrison has higher jump shot and handling then what your scenario speculates. |
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 10:07:19 GMT -6
C+ handling and you think his handles are greater than 80? No fucking way. Jump shot might be slightly higher, but his inside grade is probably lower by an equal amount.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Joined: January 1970
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 10:08:04 GMT -6
I don't hate the current set-up. My two seuggestions are to limit it to players of the same/similar positions (ie bigs can only mentor other bigs, guards can only mentor other guards) and that each GM can only use a mentor camp one time. I like this Or what soup said, once every ten seasons or so |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Joined: January 1970
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 10:08:50 GMT -6
C+ handling and you think his handles are greater than 80? No fucking way. Jump shot might be slightly higher, but his inside grade is probably lower by an equal amount. I dont think you know what you are talking about Which is not shocking looking at your drafting |
|
Bankz
Former GM
Posts: 7,254
Likes: 895
Dump Bucks: 18,475
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by Bankz on Feb 20, 2015 10:10:15 GMT -6
Its shocking I would endorse something that would improve the sim league... crazy right? I don't hate the current set-up. My two seuggestions are to limit it to players of the same/similar positions (ie bigs can only mentor other bigs, guards can only mentor other guards) and that each GM can only use a mentor camp one time. I agree with all of this. It should most def be a one time and done especially if no tweaks are made to how much you can actually beast a player. With you on the position limits. Wouldn't be against the limit of only one time either, but make it 10 seasons or something like that. We are 14 sim years in and just now approaching someone being able to cash in this reward. I get this achievement wasn't available from the start. But my guess is it would take a GM 10 years to actually collect enough points to cash in. With that said limiting it to 10 years would be lip service. I would prefer the one and done.. or having the limit be every 20 sim years. |
|
IanBoyd
Former GM
Posts: 4,969
Likes: 687
Dump Bucks: 8,575
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by IanBoyd on Feb 20, 2015 10:10:53 GMT -6
every 10 seasons is not really a limit at all, it takes around that time (or longer) to just bank up 60k again if you're spending your points on upgrades.
|
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 10:16:20 GMT -6
C+ handling and you think his handles are greater than 80? No fucking way. Jump shot might be slightly higher, but his inside grade is probably lower by an equal amount. Lol I'd learn the software a little more before I came in guns a blazing. |
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 10:17:28 GMT -6
C+ handling and you think his handles are greater than 80? No fucking way. Jump shot might be slightly higher, but his inside grade is probably lower by an equal amount. I dont think you know what you are talking about Which is not shocking looking at your drafting Huh? You think a rookie PG with C+ handling grades, came into the league with a greater than 80 handling? Law, who had a B handling, didn't have an 80 handles. |
|
IanBoyd
Former GM
Posts: 4,969
Likes: 687
Dump Bucks: 8,575
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by IanBoyd on Feb 20, 2015 10:19:50 GMT -6
I dont think you know what you are talking about Which is not shocking looking at your drafting Huh? You think a rookie PG with C+ handling grades, came into the league with a greater than 80 handling? Law, who had a B handling, didn't have an 80 handles. the handling grade is like 80% passing |
|
Bankz
Former GM
Posts: 7,254
Likes: 895
Dump Bucks: 18,475
Joined: April 2014
|
Post by Bankz on Feb 20, 2015 10:19:54 GMT -6
If Odin wants to keep mentor camps, I'd like to see them be locked in from having any SC/RCs applied to them. Being able to add another +24 to a mentored guy that just got a +250 is ridiculous. So if a guy received SC/RCs, they're illegible from being mentored anymore. Again if things are not changed as far as points being put into a player I would also like to see this implemented |
|
|
|
Post by Lazy Pete on Feb 20, 2015 10:21:26 GMT -6
I dont think you know what you are talking about Which is not shocking looking at your drafting Huh? You think a rookie PG with C+ handling grades, came into the league with a greater than 80 handling? Law, who had a B handling, didn't have an 80 handles. What they're referencing is that you can have high handles ratings without a high handling grade, because passing has a much larger effect on the handling grade. This is why Grant Hill has such a high handling grade but still is the turnover king |
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 10:22:13 GMT -6
C+ handling and you think his handles are greater than 80? No fucking way. Jump shot might be slightly higher, but his inside grade is probably lower by an equal amount. Lol I'd learn the software a little more before I came in guns a blazing. A PG with 5s in every stat, 50 inside, and 70 jumper, has a D+ inside grade. If we increase quickness and strength to 25, it is a C-. If we increase quickness to 60 and strength to 35 and jumping to 50 (my best guess for Harrison), we get a C inside grade. Curiously, could you remind me what Harrison's actual inside grade is? |
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 10:22:55 GMT -6
If you start taking away SC/RC on top of the -10 potential there is no fucking reason to even have a mentor camp.
|
|
|
|
Post by Souper Troopers on Feb 20, 2015 10:23:59 GMT -6
Lol I'd learn the software a little more before I came in guns a blazing. A PG with 5s in every stat, 50 inside, and 70 jumper, has a D+ inside grade. If we increase quickness and strength to 25, it is a C-. If we increase quickness to 60 and strength to 35 and jumping to 50 (my best guess for Harrison), we get a C inside grade. Curiously, could you remind me what Harrison's actual inside grade is? It's uncertain. |
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 10:24:21 GMT -6
Huh? You think a rookie PG with C+ handling grades, came into the league with a greater than 80 handling? Law, who had a B handling, didn't have an 80 handles. What they're referencing is that you can have high handles ratings without a high handling grade, because passing has a much larger effect on the handling grade. This is why Grant Hill has such a high handling grade but still is the turnover king Right - but what does that have to do with whether Harrison's handling is above 80? If soup has proved anything, it is that he would have chosen passing instead of handling. |
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 10:24:59 GMT -6
If you start taking away SC/RC on top of the -10 potential there is no fucking reason to even have a mentor camp. Soup has voted for get rid of mentor camp, which I could get behind if other folks felt the same way. |
|
|
|
Post by Heebs on Feb 20, 2015 10:25:26 GMT -6
A PG with 5s in every stat, 50 inside, and 70 jumper, has a D+ inside grade. If we increase quickness and strength to 25, it is a C-. If we increase quickness to 60 and strength to 35 and jumping to 50 (my best guess for Harrison), we get a C inside grade. Curiously, could you remind me what Harrison's actual inside grade is? It's uncertain. Remember that next time you want to lecture me about the software. |
|
